Aielund Saga Improvements (Need Input/Feedback)

[Legacy_MagicalMaster]

               

 I've thought a bit about different characters that would work and would round out the options for a PC of any class or alignment. PM me or whatever if you want my suggestions.

 

It's extremely unlikely given they wouldn't really be integrated into the plot and would not participate in conversations like the current companions.  Or if they did then that would take a ton of work to fit in.  May discuss it later but that's going beyond bug fixes/minor improvements to fairly dramatic changes.

 

Sparky tells you about the trouble in the castle after coming back from some quest... so at this point, you are loaded with loot. You have a choice of going out of character and ignoring the urgent nature of Sparky's message so you can go to merchants and sell stuff, or go into the sewers right away following Sparky - this is why I had so much stuff in inventory

 

There's a difference being loaded with loot and literally not having enough open bag space to unequip weapons.  But yeah.

 

I never got the Ethereal Plane part to work out in Act 2 so not sure if this is an issue, but something I vaguely recall from my first time playing this, many years ago....  the wizard that opens the portal is also the one that will add enhancements (elemental damage, etc) to your weapons. Once he's in the Ethereal, I think he no longer does that, so if you don't time it right, you lose the ablity to have him enhance any weapons, like later on before the castle fight finale.  He should either go back to the Prime, or retain the conversation that allows him to offer his services

 

I don't remember that happening, but I'll look into it sometime in the next few daysish.

               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Bawookles]

               

It's extremely unlikely given they wouldn't really be integrated into the plot and would not participate in conversations like the current companions.  Or if they did then that would take a ton of work to fit in.  May discuss it later but that's going beyond bug fixes/minor improvements to fairly dramatic changes.

 

 They really wouldn't have to have big convos or stuff integrated to the plot. I'm just talking about some alternatives to the small handful of henchmen you can use in Aielund. The only dialog they would need is the customary "I want to change your tactics" that all the henchmen in Aielund have.

               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Empyre65]

               

I love the Aielund Saga, but there are a few little details that bug me. On the Redoubtable, at the beginning of chapter 2, Criosa complains to me that the clothes she was given don't cover her adequately, so I went to the captain to report the problem, hoping that he might be able so solve it, but instead, he accuses me of making a lewd remark and strips me of my alignment title of Crusader.

In chapter 1, Dante is chaotic enough to have the Rebel alignent title (0% lawful), and is in trouble for puinching his commander, but in chapter 4, he behaves very stubbornly lawful, refusing to disobey commands from an obviously dangerously insane king.

The PC and his henchnen get very angry at the elves when they make them do their dirty work before they would agree to help, but that is exactly what has been going on all along with everybody they meet. The barbarians and dwarves both repeatedly refuse to help until you solve their problems, but when the elves do the same thing, that's somehow different.

Also, it would be awesome if you could somwhow stretch it out so that we could reach level 40.

I have been playing an old version from before horses were added and before dev crit was removed, so maybe some of these things have already been addressed since that version. I am waiting to update until your fixed-up version is ready.

               
               

               
            

[Legacy_MagicalMaster]

               

 They really wouldn't have to have big convos or stuff integrated to the plot. I'm just talking about some alternatives to the small handful of henchmen you can use in Aielund. The only dialog they would need is the customary "I want to change your tactics" that all the henchmen in Aielund have.

 

Okay, and why is having some companion be inferior to others an okay situation?  Sure, if you know those companions aren't really integrated and just put it in to flesh it out, you're okay, but what about people going through the series for the first time?

 

What do other people think about this idea?

 

I love the Aielund Saga, but there are a few little details that bug me. On the Redoubtable, at the beginning of chapter 2, Criosa complains to me that the clothes she was given don't cover her adequately, so I went to the captain to report the problem, hoping that he might be able so solve it, but instead, he accuses me of making a lewd remark and strips me of my alignment title of Crusader.

 

The newest released version clearly marks where alignments shifts are so stuff like that doesn't happen accidentally.  Basically her complaint is "All the clothing on this ship is designed for the male sailors" so not sure the captain can really help.

 

In chapter 1, Dante is chaotic enough to have the Rebel alignent title (0% lawful), and is in trouble for puinching his commander, but in chapter 4, he behaves very stubbornly lawful, refusing to disobey commands from an obviously dangerously insane king.

 

Note that you can convince him to leave peacefully, but in general he's worried that an invading Tusconite force with their...less than wonderful king would be just as bad as Aielund's king.  Insane king with godly armor or invading king who would also want to get his hands on that armor.  He's always been dedicated to his duty, he just doesn't exactly follow social norms on proper behavior.

 

The PC and his henchnen get very angry at the elves when they make them do their dirty work before they would agree to help, but that is exactly what has been going on all along with everybody they meet. The barbarians and dwarves both repeatedly refuse to help until you solve their problems, but when the elves do the same thing, that's somehow different.

 

The elves trick you into doing something you weren't expecting at all.  The barbarians don't say "Oh, go into the mountains and kill the wolf that's terrifying us" and then boom suddenly a dragon.

If anything I wish you could be angrier at the king...but adding in another dialogue branch where you aren't angry at him would probably be possible as an option.

 

Also, it would be awesome if you could somwhow stretch it out so that we could reach level 40.

 

If I were to do that (and you wind up about level 36 at the moment), where would you like to see those extra levels slotted in, so to speak?

               
               

               
            

[Legacy_MrZork]

               [Re: Extra Henchmen]
I tend to agree with MM on the henchmen: It would be a very significant task to add more henchmen into the module and integrate them as well as the extant henchmen. I have to say that one of the fun things about Aielund is that the henchmen are so well-woven into the plot. They aren't strictly needed, but they have interesting things to say and really add to the atmosphere of the module. In fact, my gf and I are (slowly) replaying the series and she doesn't really like the henchmen because she doesn't like managing them and they make the fights too easy. But, I am glad that I have played it solo and interacted with at least most of the henchmen from time to time. For the most part, I don't really think of the henchmen in terms of whatever aid to combat they might provide. They add immersion and they add to the challenge of the module because they are extra characters to keep alive as you go along.

I particularly like idea of novel henchmen like Spartan, even though I didn't get to play with him as much as I would have liked as the party was getting a little unwieldy by the time he was an option. I may have to go through in SP mode again and try and play with more of him and that little halfling druid, who I think was available as a henchmen for a while.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_icywind1980]

               

I don't know if anyone else has mentioned this but in Act 3, everytime we face the Ironlord, Terminus says he casts the spell to break down his shield, but never does. We always have to either log in as DM and kill it (which breaks the mod) or skip it entirely and just move onto part 4.

               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Jugonshi]

               

I always thought the last part (Act IV Pt.3) is a little bit too short. Adding some more planes will be good for expanding this saga.

 

I know that the saga is not exactly based on the great wheel but a mechanic world like Mechanus may be a good place to find powerful gadgets. Inter-planer cities like Sigil or the City of Blass may be interesting, too.

 

 

In regard to Spartan the dragon. Is it possible to give him UMD skill rank? In PnP, UMD is a class skill for true dragons. And that skill will make Spartan a far much versatile henchman.

               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Empyre65]

               

I don't know if anyone else has mentioned this but in Act 3, everytime we face the Ironlord, Terminus says he casts the spell to break down his shield, but never does. We always have to either log in as DM and kill it (which breaks the mod) or skip it entirely and just move onto part 4.

In the older version I have, Terminus gives you an object that he assembled (from the 3 parts that you have gathered) that you must use to deactivate the shield. This is such a big plot point that I doubt that has changed.

 

I always thought the last part (Act IV Pt.3) is a little bit too short. Adding some more planes will be good for expanding this saga.

This is a good idea. Another idea would be to have the monks in that monastary need your help with something on your 2nd and 3rd visits (3rd and 4th chapters). Also, in the 4th chapter, have the dwarves available to be recruited, provided that you solve yet another problem for them. Basically, add more side quests all along, and maybe increase the experience rewards for quests. If you add an extra level in each of the 4 chapters, that would bring the total from 36 to 40 levels. Since that means adding to the story, probably Savant would need to be involved.

I expect that this would probably wind up being a "not this version, but next version" thing.

               
               

               
            

[Legacy_MagicalMaster]

               

Terinus simply deactivates the shield in the newest version (in Act 3).

 

I'm not sure I'd want to try to add another level in each of the four acts, things like that tend to cascade and you have to rebalance everything.  More open to the idea of adding another area in Act 4 Part 3 and lengthening it slightly.  But that's definitely on the back burner compared to the other stuff.  Will try to update OP will new info later today.

               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Mac-Biodiesel]

               

Hey, just found this thread.  I've been playing the Aielund module off and on for years now.  I've played through it completely at least 5 times, and am about to do it again with my first druid.  Great to see there is still activity and interest!  I've noticed bugs and typos as well, though many are foggy in recollection.  

 

SPOILER ALERT

 

  1.  I did encounter that bug in the final battle of Act III at Fort Highmarch, where you are stalling until Terinus can teleport in and deactivate the Ironlord's shield.  He teleports in, and says to attack, but he doesn't actually deactivate the shield.  After having it happen on a completely separate play through, I think I deduced (through reloads) that it was because I was hanging out on the ramparts, far from the actual Ironlord's carnage.  Maybe I was out of proximity for Terinus to detect me and trigger the sequence?

 

  2.  I've got so many hakpaks, custom erfs, and such in my NWN directory, I don't even remember if EMS is one of them and how to tell.  I see an ems.hak in the hak folder.  Is that all there is?

 

  3.  To the poster who seems to regret the disabling of Dev Crit; I thought like you, too, and decided to re-enable it in the game myself to experience it (the hak file has the STR prereq set to 99, so just change that).  Mistake!  It makes the last modules a breeze, especially  

   Spoiler
   

the last battle with the overlord leader.  I actually killed him before he even could summon his spider.  Another time through I dev-critted the spider; you hack on the thing so many times, you eventually get a crit.  Also, Robert Black gets Dev Crit, too, so if he's in your party and you both have it = carnage.

 

  4.  I would also love to be able to get a character to lvl40 without having to play solo (no henchmen), so a longer module at the end would be fantastic. Even now, you get to level 37 or so, and just as you're flexing your muscle, BOOM, game over.

 

  5.  Please don't remove mounts.  Why do that?  If they cause problems (and they do!), a person can choose to just {gasp} not use them.  That is the simplest solution - allow player to decide if they're too buggy to use or not.

 

  6.  I have the Aielund Walkthrough doc on my computer.  Send me a note and I can email it to you.  It's not complete (ends like first part of Act IV), but it's still nice.  It's also a bit out-dated, as some things it lists have since been changed or removed in the module, but it's functional.

 

  7.  I also experienced the bug in Fairloch where you

   Spoiler
   

realize Peri betrayed you, but dialogue doesn't work to confront him.  I think I ended up determining you had to confront him before going after the Senator, and maybe before even going back to Captain Deckard.

 

  8.  The bug at the end of Act I, where you come out of the caves with the princess, but the patrol captain doesn't "see" the princess.  That will happen if she's using stealth, I believe, but I think it also happened because of proximity - she wasn't close enough to the captain.

               
               

               
            

[Legacy_icywind1980]

               

Terinus simply deactivates the shield in the newest version (in Act 3).

 

I'm not sure I'd want to try to add another level in each of the four acts, things like that tend to cascade and you have to rebalance everything.  More open to the idea of adding another area in Act 4 Part 3 and lengthening it slightly.  But that's definitely on the back burner compared to the other stuff.  Will try to update OP will new info later today.

 

Yes he is supposed to but he doesn't. He spawns in outside the courtyard and says he has disabled the shield before the Ironlord even shows up, and than we're left fighting a thing that can't be killed.

               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Jfoxtail]

               

I am somewhat surprised / interested / alarmed at the scope of this project.

 

Best of luck indeed. 

 

<disclaimer - I have a bug free download from Savants "initial final release" and never had any issues cited / nor problems with the horses honestly. I loved them as they were among the very first implementation of Bioware horses in any finished campaign. I never played Aielund in multiplayer mode - cooperative of elsewise>

 

The Aielund Saga is of course a little bit "sacrosanct" being such a beloved treasure of the community.

 

1) I strongly discourage any playing with the Henchmen unless it is a fully developed and plot integrated character.

 

That would be a monumental task which you may be up to.

 

The chief point of those henchmen developed as well as the "proficiency and deficiencies of the player" is their interaction with the politics and people of Aielund. I mean a random "Mage" hanging around simply doesn't fit. They have no "ties to the events". What may be interesting or potentially possible would be to "switch factions" and have the Druid and/or Mage Merchant become henchmen. I speak specifically of those two in Chapter 1 or the first mod; however they are also involved in the plot chase as I recall ? It would be at least thematically okay; however a Druid Henchman is available in Chapter 3 as I recall to deal with the issue of the Shadow Druid enclave ??

 

The Henchmen were well placed and timed to provide any class PC the appropriate "skill and feat edge required just in time" regardless of the main PC class. 

 

If you have played through the series only once or only a few times and "always took Croisa and Robert Black because" ... sad for you. You missed so much more.

 

2) Again not aware any bug noted.

 

3) The warning conversations around module transition i.e. allowing you to reclaim gear you equiped "Dante with" is not a bad idea at all.

 

A simple convo trigger should be easy and a nice feature to add. I can see some significant value in that as future henchmen are mundanely equipped.

 

Perhaps the better answer is to "more robustly" equip the NPC henchmen

 

A really interesting concept would be to take each potential NPC (sans Robert who is in jail after all) and beef up their gear with rings/belts/boots etc.

 

Further add "Aielund Lore" to their equipment.

 

i) The Female Barbarian with a Greatsword of "Dragon slaying" (+2 and +5 vs Dragon) won form the hoard of Vinythik the Blue by the combined might of Gozar her great ancestor and the King of Aielund at the time..... 

ii) The "princess brides ring" that is an heirloom of the kingdom and adds... 

iii) etc.

 

Anyway best wishes and good luck in the project.  

 

Please remember to remain patient and honest with the community as "tinkering with a legend" can leave you open to critic. '> 

               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Mac-Biodiesel]

               

I always thought the last part (Act IV Pt.3) is a little bit too short. Adding some more planes will be good for expanding this saga.
 
I know that the saga is not exactly based on the great wheel but a mechanic world like Mechanus may be a good place to find powerful gadgets. Inter-planer cities like Sigil or the City of Blass may be interesting, too.

Those all sound good. I was thinking more about this today. You know, the end of the story leaves us

   Spoiler
   

still wanting to hunt down Osric and get revenge. That seems like a fitting epilogue. He should still have access to all sorts of fancy gadgets, too, to make things interesting.

 

In regard to Spartan the dragon. Is it possible to give him UMD skill rank? In PnP, UMD is a class skill for true dragons. And that skill will make Spartan a far much versatile henchman.

I've used Spartan only once, and was definitely underwhelmed. Maybe I just don't know how to use him to greatest effect.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Jugonshi]

               

Spartan has many problems. But in my experience, he is at least not bad in outdoor environment. He is big and he charges fast. So, he tend to attract and engage with many opponents before they do something nasty (say, rock throwing). That is useful especially when you are playing a fragile PC such as pure mage.

 

If he has UMD, he can wear more powerful magic items such as monk-only robes and that will improve his usefulness.

               
               

               
            

[Legacy_MagicalMaster]

               

1.  I did encounter that bug in the final battle of Act III at Fort Highmarch, where you are stalling until Terinus can teleport in and deactivate the Ironlord's shield.  He teleports in, and says to attack, but he doesn't actually deactivate the shield.  After having it happen on a completely separate play through, I think I deduced (through reloads) that it was because I was hanging out on the ramparts, far from the actual Ironlord's carnage.  Maybe I was out of proximity for Terinus to detect me and trigger the sequence?

 

I'll definitely look it over, but yes, that might be it.  Savant probably expected you to actually be fighting the Ironlord.

 

 

2.  I've got so many hakpaks, custom erfs, and such in my NWN directory, I don't even remember if EMS is one of them and how to tell.  I see an ems.hak in the hak folder.  Is that all there is?

 

Yes, just ems.hak.

 

 

3.  To the poster who seems to regret the disabling of Dev Crit; I thought like you, too, and decided to re-enable it in the game myself to experience it (the hak file has the STR prereq set to 99, so just change that).  Mistake!  It makes the last modules a breeze, especially  

   Spoiler
   

the last battle with the overlord leader.  I actually killed him before he even could summon his spider.  Another time through I dev-critted the spider; you hack on the thing so many times, you eventually get a crit.  Also, Robert Black gets Dev Crit, too, so if he's in your party and you both have it = carnage.

 

The campaign is certainly not designed with Dev Crit in mind, no, and there's a very good reason it was disabled.  It's not like strength based melee builds are weak in the module anyway.

 

 5.  Please don't remove mounts.  Why do that?  If they cause problems (and they do!), a person can choose to just {gasp} not use them.  That is the simplest solution - allow player to decide if they're too buggy to use or not.

 

Except players don't know exactly what they're missing due to the bugs, so they have no way of knowing if the horses are too buggy.

 

7.  I also experienced the bug in Fairloch where you

   Spoiler
   

realize Peri betrayed you, but dialogue doesn't work to confront him.  I think I ended up determining you had to confront him before going after the Senator, and maybe before even going back to Captain Deckard.

 

I'll take a look at it.

 

8.  The bug at the end of Act I, where you come out of the caves with the princess, but the patrol captain doesn't "see" the princess.  That will happen if she's using stealth, I believe, but I think it also happened because of proximity - she wasn't close enough to the captain.

 

Noted.  On the list.

 

<disclaimer - I have a bug free download from Savants "initial final release" and never had any issues cited / nor problems with the horses honestly. I loved them as they were among the very first implementation of Bioware horses in any finished campaign. I never played Aielund in multiplayer mode - cooperative of elsewise>

 

The most prominent bugs were causing some conversations not to fire -- so chances are you HAD the issues and missed out on some conversations and you just didn't realize it.  Then there's further issues with horses in general.  There's a reason Savant regretted ever introducing the horses -- and he was enthusiastic about the idea to start.

 

Please remember to remain patient and honest with the community as "tinkering with a legend" can leave you open to critic. '>

 

Oh, I'm aware '>  And I wouldn't be considering doing this without Savant's blessing.

 

If he has UMD, he can wear more powerful magic items such as monk-only robes and that will improve his usefulness.

 

Yeah, Spartan can wear cloth armor and can be equipped with gear in every other slot, I wonder how many people don't do that.

 

Also wonder whether it makes a ton of sense to play dress-up with a dragon and whether doing something slightly different (like innate gear he gets that scales up automatically) would be better.