Author Topic: The Prophet Series - spoiler discussion thread  (Read 9517 times)

Legacy_Baldecaran

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 39
  • Karma: +0/-1
The Prophet Series - spoiler discussion thread
« Reply #45 on: October 19, 2011, 01:09:26 am »


               

Rafe34 wrote...

...

When Llarien died, she fell apart. He left her there on the ground, still weeping. She stayed there for a long time before leaving that place. I think that maybe I neglected to think of something else that motivated her: revenge. After all, in her eyes, it was Fate who had caused the century of sorrow, Fate who had killed Merudoc and Norenshire and Llarien. I doubt she truly thought about the fact that if there was no fate, much of it would be on her own hands.

Given the choice, however, between letting Fate get away with it, (in her eyes), and taking Fate down by her own death, and the death of the world, there wasn't even a contest. She hardly listened to anyone's advice prior to making her choice.

She told her past self the whole truth, the whole story, (a little outside the lines of the dialogue here), and when the past Triss told her that she hoped she would have been able to make the same sacrifice- then she was at peace.

Perhaps she would get to see Llarien again, but even if not, their actions had been their own. They were not mere puppets, or simply a portrait painted by someone else. They were the artists. And to her, that was worth any sacrifice.


I love this. You really got deep inside your character's emotions, and let them rule her actions. The image of Triss walking down that desert road with her jaw clenched and mind made up is better than anything I hoped to achieve with this story. This is why RPGs are so interesting - the players can add so much. It's just like that painting you describe - the sum of the audience interpretation is much larger than that of the painter.
               
               

               
            

Legacy_jmlzemaggo

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1869
  • Karma: +0/-0
The Prophet Series - spoiler discussion thread
« Reply #46 on: October 19, 2011, 08:14:39 am »


               

Baldecaran wrote...
I don't believe there's a right choice at all.


 ':whistle:' 
 
Does truth has to be universal? Or could it do for any single soul. And still be truth. 
I do trust you enough to believe you actually believe what you say, only... I remember those feelings I had all along the way. 
I knew. I've always known. That was already written in the prolog. It's been always written. The Prophet is a book to me, and a book knows everything before, all it does is understanding it as it writes itself. And sharing it, only to avoid being alone. 
There was not even a choice for me. As soon as I could read the question, I had the answer... for a long time already. For ever. When I was just born. 
You feel safe, Paul, in your director chair, only for writting the piece, for creating and seemingly controlling the whole thing, but did it ever occure to you you're part of the 'Prophet' yourself? With that other higher being, the real PuppetMaster, laughing at you? Yet with another one above him?
Now how does that feel to be a puppet? I can tell you that part, thanks to you...
We're all in the same boat, Baldecaran and you might be the captain, but we're all going down. 
R.I.P... 

'<img'>
               
               

               


                     Modifié par jmlzemaggo, 19 octobre 2011 - 08:19 .
                     
                  


            

Legacy_Le Penombre

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 4
  • Karma: +0/-0
The Prophet Series - spoiler discussion thread
« Reply #47 on: October 19, 2011, 10:07:40 am »


               

Baldecaran wrote...

Well said. But what about LIFE? As little Endrik gazed up at you with admiration did you explain to him these abstract concepts of free will? He felt his fear and his hopes whether or not they were destined to be felt. If you had never come along, and Uther and other prophets just kept their mouths shut, then all the world would see fate as merely a hypothetical idea with no more substance than angels dancing on the tips of needles. It would be hard to convince them that their children must die in the name of such notions.


Let's answer to that in character :

The chain is no longer unfelt, at least for the only person who can change something. And that possibility of chance in itself was already limited by the very laws of creation. It was impossible to remake the past, to provide freewill AND unmake the century of sorrow. Right ?

But who decided that there should be such a dilemna ? Who said "choose slavery and blindness in Fate, or face pain and betray the hopes of others to provide freedom " ? Who set the alternatives and forced a single individual to make a choice ?

It wasn't me. I didn't even had a say about my prophetic dreams, right ? 

The choice, the only choice to be made by me was built so that it was painful. How can the Prophet be responsible for the nature of the choice imposed on him/her ? He must choose within those laws, not how they are made. 

And what about LIFE ? 

If he had lived, Endrick could have become a tyrant, a hero, or just one anonymous person amongst many others, who knows ? That's what we, mortals, hope for... that in life there is hope, and meaning. That we are what we do, and that sometimes, what we do makes a difference. Aren't we ?

As a paladin, until i "become" the Prophet,  i try to alleviate pain when i help another, because of hope. Because i believe (or Fate has written i must think i believe...) that in the present - even in its painful and horrible nature - resides the possibility of a better future. That all the atrocities we make should be avoided, but that we can still make something good out of war and death if we can't prevent them. That despite its transient, ephemeral nature, despite the fact everyone WILL experience sorrow, pain, loss, and finally death, there are still good things to be lived. Not only tomorrow, but right now, and even good memories to relive and take succor in. 

I am not a crusader who strive to be glorified, to make a difference of heroic proportion every breath i take. I do not rejoice in sacrifice, even if i admit those are sometimes necessary, i do not act to perpetuate things as they are and become a figure of legend. I hope that in a small way, things will improve. And i am not a single individual. I hope that society, that collective goodwill can improve things for everyone. Maybe not in my lifetime, but someday... someday. 

I may be a paladin, but i am not a god. I live just like others, and i strive to make life better. Someday i will die, and i just hope i will have as few regrets as can be possible, and that if i make a little difference, it will be a good one. I stand for my ideals, not because i think myself a messiah, or just  some kind of "chosen one" but because i have values and this existence is the only chance i have to act according to them. 

This is the person i believed i was. 

And then the illusion is shattered. 

In Lor's creation, there is NO hope. Fate already knows. Fate knew what Endrick's life would have been. Fate set in stone what he would have been, would have felt, what would have been his successes and failures. 

Where is Endrick, then ? Nowhere, except before my eyes.
Where are we all, then ? Nowhere, except before Lor's eyes. 

Our mortal definition of existence means nothing. There is no hope, there is no future, no present, no past. There is only Fate. And so, there is no Life, that we could recognize as such. 

The same applies for me, the Prophet, except that in a single instant, when i confront my past self, i can make the only choice i will ever make in my existence. The single choice everyone will make in all of Lor's creation. 

Endrick might not accept it, most adult people would not even agree to it in a purely hypothetical way, but they are not the ones who have to make the choice. And i am not them. I am only me. A predetermined creation whose life and feelings were already written until this very moment, but who also, just once, is allowed to really decide something. 

Why should my decision be perfect ? I live within those constraints that we call creation. I obey its laws because there is nothing else i can do. Nothing else anyone can do. And i had no say in the nature of the choice i had to make. If somebody if responsible for making me choose between two forms of suffering... this is not me. 

I am only responsible for choosing who will be sacrificed. I am even forced to sacrifice someone : either i let all those who live now die, or i save them and everyone will remain slaves to fate. Untold billions of people will never feel the chain that will remain here. And i can't go back. Lor offered me sanctuary for a time, in his dream, but i cannot even choose to forget and refuse to act. I MUST make that choice and my only act of freewill will be to determine which of those two alternatives i choose. Who will be sacrificed. 

If that's what it is all about and nothing can change that, well, so be it. As already said, the chain that is not felt... and maybe, it is the true nature of existence in Lor's creation. Maybe for mortals, and even for gods , life has no meaning but to be a sculpture made by the Creator and shaped by Fate. And even the prophets, the herezar and the rest were only part of the show, to provide the chain of events that would allow for a single individual to make a single choice in his existence, in all existences.

Which leads us to the crucial question, because, you see, those events happened. Because even Fate had to make them happen !

So...

What if the Creator provides the possibility to change the laws of creation ? 

What if he gives you something nobody never had, not even Fate herself ? What if he allows you to make a choice, a choice that even Fate -and Lor himself - will have to accept ?

What if there is the possibility to provide meaning ? To provide choices and hence consequences. What if instead of just ONE painful choice to be made by one individual in all eternity, there can be many little choices made by everyone, in his or her life ? 

Would you choose Fate ? Would you provide the perpetuation of this charade ? Would you allow a future for untold billions of Endricks until whatever End of All Time there is, if there is one ? Would you allow for untold billions of future people like Merudoc, Uther, Llarien and Evernorn to live, hope, suffer, make sacrifices and dream... in vain ? 

Or would you accept that Endrick, Merudoc, Uther, Llarien, Evernorn... and even yourself, must die one way or another, because that is what happens to mortals, but that for once, those deaths will truly provide hope ?

Would you sacrifice yourself and all people you know (most of whom important to you already dead in hope of making things better...) or would you sacrifice all who will come, just because the pain in the eyes of the child before you is too horrible ?

Would you act to spare a child and remain a hero in his eyes, and so doing, damning to ignorance this very child and everyone else for all eternity... and making the deaths of all the victims of the century of sorrow as meaningless as their lives... or will you accept that he too is fated to die, but that until there is truly freedom, no death, and no life either, has any meaning for mortals ? 

And so, by my hand, they all died. All of them. I betrayed them, yes. I certainly did. 

And after i made my choice, i saw that in fact, i made the right one. Creation was imperfect, incomplete, in Lor's eye. That's why he made it  so that at some time, there would be a possibility to make it truer than it was. 

In making my decision, my only decision, I made existence more real, for all those who would live, and their own existences would at least be more complete than our own. Their own sacrifices, pains, sorrows... they could have a significance, a meaning.

Maybe they will suffer and sometimes gain in their suffering, unlike us, who only played our part in an incomplete sculpture, waiting to be completed. We only thought we lived. They will truly live. The only significance of our existences was that we had to make room for them, for their freedom. For once, in all eternity, there was a true sacrifice, which really made a difference.

We all have to die, but for once, we truly die for those who will follow. 

This is not Heaven, mind you, not at all. But now, this is truly Life. Experience, growth, change, death, renewal. And not just  a tapestry that not even the maker is satisfied with... 

I was a paladin, i strived to make things better. I acted all my "life" in hope that tomorrow, if not today, things would be better. I thought that in every child, there may be a future tyrant, a future victim, or a future hero. And that everyone should have his chance to become better, to enjoy his life and help others enjoy their lives. That nothing was pre-determined but that every choice had consequences and everyone is responsible for his own damnation, or salvation. That a single life, our very own life each one of us, can make a difference.

And i made that a reality. 

Nobody will ever know, except Lor. There will be not a trace of my act, except in his mind. The past will be forgotten, this world and everyone in it is dead. 

There are millions who died painfully and in fear because of me, and who will never remember they ever existed, and billions who will never know they own me their freedom. Only Lor will know, and i was nothing but his tool. Imperfect, and not at all guaranteed to act properly, but the final piece he used to complete his creation. To make it reborn anew or to stand incomplete, according to my decision.

I now understand that Lor wanted to complete his creation, but couldn't do it. If i had made the other choice, who knows how many centuries, millenias, would happen until Lor - the creator who wanted to perfect his creation  - would again arrange events so that another opportunity to complete his work - another Prophet - would arise ? Who knows ?

And considering this intent of the Creator about his creation, who knows of many times in the untold eons past other Prophets appeared and had the same choice to make, but choose Fate ?

I will never know. 

I strived to make things better. In a way, they are, now. 

Then, i am no longer a prophet. Just a mortal who has no more home, and no more illusions. It is time then, to end my own charade. To go to sleep, to be forgotten. To leave room for something new, something in which life, purpose, freedom, consequences... are real. I cannot go back, i cannot forget.

Only the sands of time will keep the footprints of my existence... for a time. Even Lor will forget about me, somewhen in the future of eternity.

And you know what ? This is just fine. 

Life, now, finally has meaning. 

And because life is beautiful, it is time to die.
               
               

               


                     Modifié par Le Pénombre, 19 octobre 2011 - 09:11 .
                     
                  


            

Legacy_Baldecaran

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 39
  • Karma: +0/-1
The Prophet Series - spoiler discussion thread
« Reply #48 on: October 20, 2011, 06:59:01 pm »


               Thanks for your thoughts!

Le Pénombre wrote...
And after i made my choice, i saw that in fact, i made the right one. Creation was imperfect, incomplete, in Lor's eye. That's why he made it  so that at some time, there would be a possibility to make it truer than it was. 

...

I now understand that Lor wanted to complete his creation, but couldn't do it. If i had made the other choice, who knows how many centuries, millenias, would happen until Lor - the creator who wanted to perfect his creation  - would again arrange events so that another opportunity to complete his work - another Prophet - would arise?


Right. To create existence out of nothingness, Lor had to split nothingness into balanced pieces, the physical elements, the forces of life & death, and the past and future. Such a creation could only exist if things were in balance, and to balance the past and future he had to create them "together", so that all events lean against each other. But this was not satisfactory in his eyes. He wanted this creation to have free will. You're right - he couldn't give it free will or it would not be truly free. The world had to make that choice on its own. But the price is that the balance could not be maintained, and so the entire universe (and all those infinite worlds) existed for only a finite moment. In a sense then, your choice was the final stroke of Lor's hammer, with which he completed and ended his creation.

That's how it looks from Lor's perspective, outside of normal time. From the perspective of mortals such as your paladin, Endrik, and everyone else, it is very different:

From your perspective, within normal time, the choice that you made implies that fate never existed. So she was not responsible for anything. All who have lived had been fully in charge of their acts, and thus must take both credit and blame for them. Uther Palandras was indeed guilty of slaughtering an entire village of innocents, by his own free choice. Llarien did indeed freely sacrifice himself for the hope for a future. The Herezars were truly to blame for setting in motion the trap that led to the century of sorrow, and you are indeed guilty of following their plan and destroying the world. Worse still, your choice proves that none of it was necessary. Fate never did rule the world - she was just a fiction. The whole Herezar plan was just a way of answering a question, the one question they cared about most. Perhaps your paladin is correct that a world ruled by fate would have been devoid of meaning, but his choice proves it was never the case.
               
               

               
            

Legacy_Le Penombre

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 4
  • Karma: +0/-0
The Prophet Series - spoiler discussion thread
« Reply #49 on: October 20, 2011, 09:03:38 pm »


               Interesting, Baldecaran, but being the Prophet means to no longer experience events only "within normal time".

Because the mortal perception of time, the linear time, doesn't account for the usual paradox that a consequence can predate an action... and this is precisely the impact of the choice you provide to the player.

If by my choice i decide that Fate never existed, we are outside  "normal time". Because, if we remain in "normal time" i would never had dreamed about her and the child (future) i kill... since by my choice they never existed. I never meet her, talk to her, because she never was here.
So, if she never existed, who was the woman i met ? Who or what made me dream something which never existed ? I never dreamt about her, then ? So, i never acted and never decided to deny Fate, because my decision had no impact since she never existed anyway and i never had the notion that i needed to oppose her... Even more, nothing ever happened and i never had prophetic dreams. NOBODY never had prophetic dreams.

Because Uther could not oppose a Century of Sorrow which was not prophesied, since there never was Fate and nothing was destined. Even if he had  a dream he thought prophetic, how could he decide to attack Norenshire since it is because he does it that i met him before my own birth to ask him why and so provide him the mean to awake my gift for prophecy. 

That is "normal time", but because there IS a decision, normal time doesn't apply to the Prophet. We are talking about a time paradox, where consequences can predate actions instead of actions leading to consequences. From the very beginning, the first dream, the paradox apply : if i deny fate, she never existed precisely because she did and i opposed her. You are also saying this, but the other way around, when you said 'none of it was necessary". Yes, none of it was necessary, precisely because it was. I become the Prophet because i have a dream about norenshire and try to prevent this massacre and this event exists because i am the Prophet meet Uther and tell him how to attract my attention. Ditto for the splinter's of Lor hammer. All along the story, the Prophet is within "normal time" (actions leads to consequences) but at the same time, everything happens so that he reaches the crux, the moment in which he has to make his decision and he can make it because - among other things - of the splinter which - as the Prophet - he sends backward in time. 

Nice try, but as i said, none of it was necessary, because in fact it was '<img'>

But... let us consider the other alternative. If i save my world, Fate was always omnipotent - since i do what she decreed (i lie to my past self to save the world as my future self lies to me) and, those are also "not necessary", since everything was already written and there was never any choice at all. Right ? 

Wrong. Once more, we are outside of "normal time". And in another paradox.

If i choose this, then, i do not deny Fate... i make her real !! She as always been there and will always be there and even my decision is her dictate, because... i said so.

That is the decision, and the decision is made by the player, as the Prophet... outside of "normal time".

But, for roleplaying's sake, let us imagine that  Lor never intended anything, that he just created the world and let Fate rule everything. 

Then, the story happens and when the Prophet is supposed to "choose", he just "choose" Fate, because everything is preset and predetermined, even his own story, and there is no choice. Let us imagine there is no Prophet and no choice, but only a story made by Fate about a mortal who opposes her to finally bow to her... this is just a story, because the mortal cannot even think for himself. There is no "normal time", no decision, nothing.


Just drama.

And Fate '<img'>
               
               

               
            

Legacy_Baldecaran

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 39
  • Karma: +0/-1
The Prophet Series - spoiler discussion thread
« Reply #50 on: October 23, 2011, 02:44:26 am »


               

jmlzemaggo wrote...

I knew. I've always known. That was already written in the prolog. It's been always written. The Prophet is a book to me, and a book knows everything before, all it does is understanding it as it writes itself. And sharing it, only to avoid being alone. 
There was not even a choice for me. As soon as I could read the question, I had the answer... for a long time already.


It is interesting that you never had doubts about your choice, and felt that the whole series called for it. It's ironic, because when I wrote chapter 1 I still didn't know how I would wrap it all up! I knew there would be a battle against fate, but not the price that had to be paid, or for that matter, what the "century of sorrow" would even be!

jmlzemaggo wrote...
You feel safe, Paul, in your director chair, only for writting the piece, for creating and seemingly controlling the whole thing, but did it ever occure to you you're part of the 'Prophet' yourself? With that other higher being, the real PuppetMaster, laughing at you? Yet with another one above him?


Maybe you're right. '<img'> Many of the story ideas developed seemingly without my planning, and "wrote themselves" as I was working on various conversations. Some of the events just fit with the others, and demanded to be implemented. So I guess it's a bit like Lor's fate: To make the story fit together some of its twists and turns forced the others. Lots of writers talk of this: sometimes the personalities of the characters simply demand you let them do something that wasn't part of your original plan. Here it was similar. When I wrote chapter 2 it was essentially in tandem with chapter 3 - that's part of the reason why it took so ridiculously long...
               
               

               
            

Legacy_Baldecaran

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 39
  • Karma: +0/-1
The Prophet Series - spoiler discussion thread
« Reply #51 on: October 23, 2011, 03:20:57 am »


               

Le Pénombre wrote...

So, if she never existed, who was the woman i met ? Who or what made me dream something which never existed ? I never dreamt about her, then ? So, i never acted and never decided to deny Fate, because my decision had no impact since she never existed anyway and i never had the notion that i needed to oppose her... Even more, nothing ever happened and i never had prophetic dreams. NOBODY never had prophetic dreams.


(Hmmmm... let me see if I can dig myself out of this metaphysical hole... Here goes...)

From the mortal perspective:

Strictly speaking, prophetic dreams are not incompatible with a universe in which free will exists. As long as they are sufficiently vague so that room is left for choices, they can avoid creating a paradox. For example, consider the poisoning of the wellspring:

You never saw the face of the hooded man who spoke those words. When you came to Hierathanum, there were three potential universes: one in which Atelkhan poisons the wellspring, one in which it is Amhothet, and one in which it is Nazathar. Any of those was compatible with the past, as well as with your vision. But given the choices you made, you followed only one of these universes, in which the poisoning still took place. Who committed it was determined by your free choices. But a universe in which you saw the face of the hooded man could not exist, and so it didn't.

What about the dream weavers? Well, the only reason they can see all time in a glance is because they are unable to communicate what they see clearly enough to create an actual paradox. Their aphasia is part of the secret of their art. If one of them were to learn normal speech, she would immediately lose her powers as well as her memories.

Le Pénombre wrote...

Because Uther could not oppose a Century of Sorrow which was not prophesied, since there never was Fate and nothing was destined. Even if he had  a dream he thought prophetic, how could he decide to attack Norenshire since it is because he does it that i met him before my own birth to ask him why and so provide him the mean to awake my gift for prophecy. 


Uther could not see who would begin the Century of Sorrow, because knowing that would make the prophecy impossible. Perhaps it didn't have to be you, as long as it was someone with a gift of prophecy (or otherwise the Herezar trick would not work). But because it had to be someone with the sight, Uther would be able to learn that, and he did. But perhaps he didn't have to destroy Norenshire. Perhaps he could have captured you in some other way... But he freely chose to use the halflings as a trap.

So then who was the woman you saw in the dream, if not fate? She was just a figment of your imagination - a fable concocted by those who thought about the nature of prophetic sight and decided that fate must exist. Your dreams were full of metaphors and illusions as your mind tried to make sense of its visions, and she was one of them.

With a fateless universe, time can proceed in a billion different ways, but it only does proceed in one way. And you and other prophets ascribed purpose to the shape of time just as ancient men ascribed purpose to the eruption of a volcano.

Nevertheless, even the Herezars could not be sure of any of this. That is why they set their plan into motion - there was no other way to truly determine whether the universe unfolds the way it does because of the choices we make, or because it is meant to do so. Their plan was a kind of challenge to the gods, a wager that their victim - you - would stand against the demands of history. Ironically, if free will existed, then you would have been free to lie to your past self and save the world. That would not necessarily have created fate, but you would never know.
               
               

               
            

Legacy_jmlzemaggo

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1869
  • Karma: +0/-0
The Prophet Series - spoiler discussion thread
« Reply #52 on: October 23, 2011, 08:46:33 am »


               What I believe is this unknown part of the writter I mentionned, the High Puppet Master, is you, you as a collection, as a, unfortunately quite efficient in your case, receptacle of the whole 3rd millennium human knowledge, with too many things in that only one body of yours to handle in one lifetime maybe, but still, you can use it all... at the only condition of allowing yourself to do or write things... without any control. Without trying to figure out, to decipher, to, perhaps scientifically, translate the whole.
I'm afraid you choose the way of the writer, when you could have gone your scientist one, even a mad one. All the same anyway, 'just making your Nobel Price a bit further....
That's also the reason why I believe your writing is so light, light as wind.
Another reason why I played it with the heaviest class around, but still, one which could fly at the end.

Because it's intuitive. Almsot "sensuel".
The most important word of all, and for ever french to me. Nothing pretentious, it's just the only way I can truly feel it, and only then, trying to offer it.

What you talked about here isn't the most important to me, even if it's not too bad already (french guy here!) but the way you wrote it.
And this is what makes your Prophet, because it's fully yours, very special, if not personal, to me: its lightness.
From some heavy thinking eventually. Even above the greatest story or idea of all.
You could have tried to use it, to control it, and in the end, to subdue it. To finally enchain it.
Owning, making it yours instead of offering it, what you did. It tells a lot about you, to yourself in the first place.
Now, if you ever mention to any one any of these kind words I was stupid, or grateful, enough to write about you here, I'd say you're a liar.
Which you're obviously not. To say the least. 
I'm very pleased with the way you used and abused NWN. You both deserve it. 
               
               

               


                     Modifié par jmlzemaggo, 23 octobre 2011 - 07:56 .
                     
                  


            

Legacy_Citillara

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 1
  • Karma: +0/-0
The Prophet Series - spoiler discussion thread
« Reply #53 on: October 23, 2011, 04:58:29 pm »


               My character and I chose to deny fate.
Through the entire series, she always tried to prevent the events she saw in her dreams. Furthermore, she cannot stand the absence of free will, though in the following example it kinda more looks like blackmailing. When Atelkhan asks her to bare the collar, she refuses it to a point she has to fight them all. Another point is because all sufferings would have been meaningless if she accept fate and let everything happen normally. Of course, even with Free Will there is still people who will suffer, however the Creation would become only richer if it was multiplied in a countless number of worlds than just one written in advance.
There is also the meeting with the Creator; this was for her the most decisive thing. As He was ignoring her, she could not help think, “If He doesn’t intervene that means it’s allowed. We are allowed to reshape our creation”
Finally, the fact that no prophet could see anything after the Century of Sorrow was meaningful. In a way we can say it was the fate that the Fate would be denied. (Please do not comment the syntax of that sentence '<img'>)
In addition, by the denial, indeed the last piece is set in place. As the Creator could not create Free Will, He created that world in the way it would create it alone because He sets the Fate. It is like creating an AI without space constrains: you write a small piece of code that will write the rest.
Therefore, it should stand something like this: the Creator makes the beginning of a world (even if it holds millennia’s of history it still remains small) in which a set of events will create Free Will. Statues representing worlds that failed (or where He did not wanted Free Will) to achieve Free Will and are governed by Fate. Broken ones, those where the Prophet failed during the 3rd chapter (died after activating the Century of Sorrows)
Indeed that was a one of the great epic modules I have ever played in NWN and I am glad you kept going on that game even after all those years!
Did you ever play HeX Coda? Great module with the time loop in the first chapter. Unfortunately, he never made the second one but I found somewhere the script for it and it was good too.
               
               

               
            

Legacy_jmlzemaggo

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1869
  • Karma: +0/-0
The Prophet Series - spoiler discussion thread
« Reply #54 on: October 23, 2011, 05:49:53 pm »


               @ Citillara

StefanGagne did release a "the HeX coda 02 (Incomplete Yet Finished Release)", probably the one you're talking about...
You can find it in my (new) list:

"Best community modules", for NWN beginners &... more
                         (also in my signature)
               
               

               


                     Modifié par jmlzemaggo, 23 octobre 2011 - 05:00 .
                     
                  


            

Legacy_DekuBush

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 1
  • Karma: +0/-0
The Prophet Series - spoiler discussion thread
« Reply #55 on: October 23, 2011, 08:31:32 pm »


               I had to come out of my permanent lurk to voice my thoughts about this amazing series.'Posted
 
Talindra (my Prophet, imported through Cave of Songs & Honour Among Thieves) chose to defy Fate. She had her own motivations, but chief among them was that she couldn't bring herself to betray herself and all her friends, as she saw it. She'd suffered too much and seen too much death and betrayal to inflict that on her younger self. Besides that, after the sheer agonising futility of her long battle with Fate, she wasn't going to capitulate at the last. (There weren't enough dialogue options in the dream of Norenshire for her to really tell Fate what she thought of her. But then I'm not sure there could ever be enough invective for that particular confrontation.'Posted)
 
Deep down, I think she hoped that if she told her past self the truth, she'd wake up back in Hierathanum and the Century of Sorrow would never have happened. In a sense, she did; certainly a Talindra was warned, didn't take the Sceptre of Lor, and woke into a world governed not by Fate but Free Will. (As to what became of the one who warned her, she entered the Vortex of Worlds, and given the choice, she'd have 'become' that story.)
 
But it got me thinking; if my Talindra didn't change her own past, then whose future did she change? If that was another Talindra, from another world, then imagine the magnitude of the betrayal a lie would represent: Not only would she be condemning her own world to an eternity of slavery under Fate, but she'd be condemning another world to the Century of Sorrow, and another Talindra to the same dreadful choice. Uncounted worlds of unborn may rest in her hands. Fate's universe would spin on a cycle of betrayal, each world in turn condemning the next to torment and itself to bondage, until someone defies Her and breaks the chain.
 
And on that happy thought, I'll return to my lurking.
               
               

               
            

Legacy_furballs

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 2
  • Karma: +0/-0
The Prophet Series - spoiler discussion thread
« Reply #56 on: October 25, 2011, 12:40:36 pm »


               I thought the ending was amazing, both of them.  I decided to play both endings by playing one ending then go back to a save  just before the ending. I can see you really worked on making  on an amazing mod. I really was abosrb in it. Thank-you for making it.
               
               

               
            

Legacy_Rafe34

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 10
  • Karma: +0/-0
The Prophet Series - spoiler discussion thread
« Reply #57 on: October 25, 2011, 06:35:56 pm »


               I do have a question, something I missed. The child I was supposed to kill. Either something glitched in my game, or I never actually killed her. Or perhaps that was all a metaphor for something that just went completely over my head. I've thought about it as being child = Fate's plan to restore the balance, but that wasn't really made clear to me.
               
               

               


                     Modifié par Rafe34, 25 octobre 2011 - 05:37 .
                     
                  


            

Legacy_Snowdog65

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 50
  • Karma: +0/-0
The Prophet Series - spoiler discussion thread
« Reply #58 on: October 25, 2011, 08:09:22 pm »


               GRRR!

Some lame troll has been creating garbage accounts on the Vault to vote this wonderful mod down...

It is sad that the vault is so mismanaged that it makes the perfect troll/spammer breeding ground. It must be the only forum I have been on that doesn't even require email verification to set up accounts, thus trolls don't even need to remember passwords, they just make up new garbage accounts for each post (and get to vote again).
               
               

               
            

Legacy_Snowdog65

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 50
  • Karma: +0/-0
The Prophet Series - spoiler discussion thread
« Reply #59 on: October 26, 2011, 11:41:06 pm »


               

Rafe34 wrote...

I do have a question, something I missed. The child I was supposed to kill. Either something glitched in my game, or I never actually killed her. Or perhaps that was all a metaphor for something that just went completely over my head. I've thought about it as being child = Fate's plan to restore the balance, but that wasn't really made clear to me.


It is a metaphor IMO, for the very fabric of reality. You destroy it at the end of Ch2 with the Hammer or Lor.