Author Topic: Hyper-mods  (Read 991 times)

Legacy_Rolo Kipp

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4349
  • Karma: +0/-0
Hyper-mods
« on: October 21, 2012, 03:12:57 pm »


                < peering near-sightedly... >

I was re-reading the Builder's Journal compilation when I re-encountered an article by Galap:

Neverwinter Server Clustering

This article outlines a model for running multiple Neverwinter servers on the same machine in a tightly coupled cluster that is perceived as a single game world by players.

Obviously there must be at least two servers in use, with one server being designated the primary or central server and all other servers being secondary or satellite servers. The central server is the core of the cluster and acts both as an entry point for players and a coordinator for interaction with satellite servers. Communication between the central server and the satellites is performed through the Bioware database functions.

This got me percolating all over again about one of my pet projects - enabling standalone modules beyond their original scope.
I believe strongly that the brightest future for NwN lies in expanding upon the strengths that have made so many of us so loyal - the ability to create and share our own stories. It just really annoys me that some truly beautiful creations are sealed tightly into their own stand-alone universe.

Example: D/L this great module set in some obscure town beneath a brooding half-ruined tower keep (specifically thinking of my Trollsbane:Birthright module set on the edge of the Trollfells).
Play the module. 
Ok. 
Now what?
The next module you get will have nothing to do with that town or it's (quite finely crafted) NPCs/quests/resources.

But what if the module was built with an (easily?) incorporated hyper-module system in place?
After finishing (or tiring of) the Trollfells, your PC walks to the edge of the world (standalone module scope) and... transitions to the Walking Woods Regional module to the north. The NPCs in Birthright, the inns, the keep (which you should own by now), all the resources (that you haven't destroyed or wasted) are still available to the south but now the player can persist into new modules without the export/import character mechanic of old and with his world expanded to *include* previously played modules.

To begin with, a hyper-module system would focus on topography and geometry. 
How each admin configures new modules into his particular world would need to be very flexible, meaning hyper-transitions would need to be defined when a new module is incorporated. Rather like html links and anchors (anyone remember Gopher?).
Hyper-modules would have potential, unassigned transitions in place (named anchors) and the admin would have a tool to link those transitions into the configuration appropriate to his world. 
In Amethyst, The Trollfells are to the southeast of the Walking Woods (Regional Mod). The setting for Forester (another of my long delayed mods) is *inside* the Walking Woods. The Walking Woods are to the West of the Western Demesne (Regional). The Underways (Regional) are *beneath* the Walking Woods.
But some other admin may like the Forester module and not (*gasp*) the Walking Woods. He might link Forester to the south of the Trollfells and gain the benefit of an expanded world without having to actually load the mod into the toolset.

After the topography of the hyper-module system is stable, translators for quests, spells, creatures and all those other cool CC things could make even NPCs travel between modules and quests take on a larger scope. Building quest/adventure systems that expand with added modules is another aspect of what I envision.

Note that I haven't said a word about SP vs MP. To my mind, forcing a player into one play-style or the other is very limiting. Which brings me back to the whole server-cluster thing with new insights from Virusman (hard links) and the use of MySQL dbs instead of the native db.

Anyway, just thought I'd ramble on a bit about something I'm always walking toward. If I seem to go off on tangents, I am probably thinking about a place far ahead...

< ...down the road not yet travelled >
               
               

               


                     Modifié par Rolo Kipp, 21 octobre 2012 - 05:24 .
                     
                  


            

Legacy_henesua

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6519
  • Karma: +0/-0
Hyper-mods
« Reply #1 on: October 21, 2012, 04:20:54 pm »


               I like the way you think. These ideas are worth exploring.

I always liked the idea that with NWN some server admins could collaborate by creating links with other servers so that players could move between "worlds". One would defintely have to coordinate the custom content between those different modules though.

Stop me if I have it wrong.

Rolo Kipp wrote...
Note that I haven't said a word about SP vs MP. To my mind, forcing a player into one play-style or the other is very limiting.


One thing about this. I think as soon as you introduce multiplayer to an environment, it all becomes multiplayer - certainly from a builder's standpoint, but in many instances from the point of view of the players as well.
               
               

               
            

Legacy_Rolo Kipp

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4349
  • Karma: +0/-0
Hyper-mods
« Reply #2 on: October 21, 2012, 04:46:31 pm »


               <hearing things...>

henesua wrote...
...I always liked the idea that with NWN some server admins could collaborate by creating links with other servers so that players could move between "worlds". One would defintely have to coordinate the custom content between those different modules though...

Yup.
We actually got started in that direction back before beta, we had a whole builder's group on Sourceforge set up just for that and churning out some tasty scripts before release...but I heard that all fell apart :-P

I have always felt the most viable approach in that direction was "translators" that would allow individual (Gem)worlds to preserve their custom scripting/content/flavor but would allow migration across servers with the content translated on entry to fit the environment of the new server. Example: L33T D00D with his Magnificent Seven Bladed Sword Of DM-Slaying would step through a worldgate into Amethyst and discover his sword is a very pretty mastercrafted(+1) sword and his name has been changed to Leet Dodd. Appalled he jumps back to H4kr H34Ven and... he's L33T again.

But there's more to hyper-mods than that. The more a player plays, the richer his world becomes because the mods are no longer disposable chapters, but expansions to his personal game-space. Not that the episodic content is to be sneezed at, just that all that finely crafted content should still be available after *that* story is told.

Rolo Kipp wrote...
Note that I haven't said a word about SP vs MP. To my mind, forcing a player into one play-style or the other is very limiting.

One thing about this. I think as soon as you introduce multiplayer to an environment, it all becomes multiplayer - certainly from a builder's standpoint, but in many instances from the point of view of the players as well.

Personal opinion warning. 
Playing SP or MP should be at the whim of the player and he shouldn't be locked into that play-style.  Sometimes I start a SP mod and later wish I could invite a friend along because I'm enjoying it so much (or desperately need the help). Can't do that with SP mods. You *can* play MP mods as SP.

And then you start getting into the whole encryption/trust issue with migrating characters. But I think it *can* be done and I'm working in that general direction :-P

<...but  not always listening>
               
               

               


                     Modifié par Rolo Kipp, 21 octobre 2012 - 04:05 .
                     
                  


            

Legacy_Mavrixio

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 142
  • Karma: +0/-0
Hyper-mods
« Reply #3 on: October 21, 2012, 07:41:30 pm »


               This is about what Sinfar is: A vast world, for multiple play styles, split into islands and archipelagos, running on 3 instances of nwserver that close to perfectly linked by sharing the player list and chat, and dynamically built by players and a large builder team (20+ people).

Players can build buildings and turn it into whatever they want. They upload them via a web page: http://dev.sinfar.net/houses and it is instantly online. There's no trust issue because everything that they upload is strictly validated by the server.

Builders can build anything, via a unique CMS and just like player houses, what they build can be uploaded and can be tested immediately online, using nwnx_resman and nwnx_areas.

My role is to build the core: make all the best custom content available, have a stable and lag  free server, that there be no exploit, that everything be balanced and structured...
               
               

               


                     Modifié par Mavrixio, 21 octobre 2012 - 06:42 .
                     
                  


            

Legacy_Rolo Kipp

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4349
  • Karma: +0/-0
Hyper-mods
« Reply #4 on: October 21, 2012, 07:59:46 pm »


               <quite...>

Very cool :-) Especially the use of resman & areas to make the world so dynamic.

That has pieces of what I'm talking about.

But can I take Sinfar and drop it into Amethyst's Outerworld?
Can I take the city of Harborton on Amethyst and add it to Sinfar?
Can I drop A Dance with Rogues into a slum somewhere?
Can I really find out Who's Coming to Dinner and let my heirs revenge me?

What I'm really talking about here is making mods so that after the credits, the content remains and expands on whatever else the player explores.

<...impressed>
               
               

               


                     Modifié par Rolo Kipp, 21 octobre 2012 - 07:03 .
                     
                  


            

Legacy_Mavrixio

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 142
  • Karma: +0/-0
Hyper-mods
« Reply #5 on: October 21, 2012, 08:11:20 pm »


               To be linked to Sinfar a mod would have to take the form of an Island or archipelagos, follow our item and tag/resref rules and use our core scripts (AI, death, resting)
It is about all what would be needed. Another feature that we have is that each island can have their own haks.
               
               

               


                     Modifié par Mavrixio, 21 octobre 2012 - 07:13 .
                     
                  


            

Legacy_Daybringer

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 22
  • Karma: +0/-0
Hyper-mods
« Reply #6 on: October 22, 2012, 01:18:49 pm »


               O_O; I totally wish I had seen this topic like 7 years ago XD. I really love the idea, to take it a step further you could have a server where there's a main community of players, and then these satellite servers could be considered distant lands. You get a group of one to several players to go to some dock.. and set off to do one of these modules, the players finish, or are logged out for X amount of time, and the module resets itself. A reloading side quest with a world where NPCs can die off, and you run through various things. You end by returning to the greater module set.

The best part is? You could have single player modules, rather then kept on a vault be kept on a server with a community of players, and adjust them/build upon them over time based on what players say ~ and if your the sort who doesn't like sharing their work for fear of having it stolen, the whole... set up is just.. beautiful.

I can picture a character just setting off on some grand adventure during low server times and going through a rather exciting experience. The next step beyond that is .. having the satellite servers pop up on demand, possibly even multiple instances of the same module running by various groups of PCs
               
               

               
            

Legacy_Nob

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 13
  • Karma: +0/-0
Hyper-mods
« Reply #7 on: November 13, 2012, 08:15:17 am »


               The idea's been in existence for a while, at least in some sense.

CoPaP's been around for about 8 years now, and we've had interlinked worlds with several playerbases interacting along different settings.

www.copap.org
               
               

               
            

Legacy_Rolo Kipp

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4349
  • Karma: +0/-0
Hyper-mods
« Reply #8 on: November 13, 2012, 08:13:30 pm »


               <squeaking by...>

The interlinked worlds idea has been around (for me) since I proposed a Bard's Tale Construction Set to EA in 1985... (They even stole my artwork for the box cover! :-P ).

And I pushed it again in NwN alpha in 2000 & 2001. Founded the Nexus. Etc.
I've looked at CoPaP and am quite impressed with it :-) It is something along the lines of what I planned with the Gemworlds.

This idea, however, is something just a church-mouse squeak different. This is planning and building modules so that the lovely, rich content in it can be added to people's gamespace and used to expand where they play.

Interlinked servers are admin-centric. Hyper-mods are player-centric.

An example: I am *really* looking forward to Andarian's redo of the Sanctum series. But once I finish the module... what can I do with all that gorgeous stuff? How can I go visit my favorite NPCs?

With Hyper-mod enabled content, I add the Sanctum module to my gamespace and it is still available for play.

<...on creaking knees>
               
               

               


                     Modifié par Rolo Kipp, 13 novembre 2012 - 08:15 .