Author Topic: NWNCX Suggestion - open "hard coded" visual effects to modification/addition  (Read 6681 times)

Legacy_The Amethyst Dragon

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2981
  • Karma: +0/-0


               

Failed.Bard wrote...
Admittedly, being able to use plt mapping on vfx and creatures in the first would eliminate the need for a number of workarounds that have been thought up.

It is possible to use plt on creature models, but those models have to be altered to use a particular plt.  There are currently a few of these sort of models in the CEP (link to how they use these).
               
               

               
            

Legacy_virusman

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 448
  • Karma: +0/-0


               Currently open-face helmets use a single model that scales according to appearance.2da values. If it's not accurate enough, it might be possible to modify it to use multiple models when available.
               
               

               


                     Modifié par virusman, 14 juillet 2012 - 09:15 .
                     
                  


            

Legacy_Failed.Bard

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1409
  • Karma: +0/-0


               

The Amethyst Dragon wrote...

Failed.Bard wrote...
Admittedly, being able to use plt mapping on vfx and creatures in the first would eliminate the need for a number of workarounds that have been thought up.

It is possible to use plt on creature models, but those models have to be altered to use a particular plt.  There are currently a few of these sort of models in the CEP (link to how they use these).


  Finally got around to taking a look at the tintable tail creatures in game, and the lack lack of displaying weapons is a huge drawback to that method.
  That's not even taking into account that the method for setting the colours makes them less dynamic than an option where the colours could be set in toolset. Admittedly, the colours can be set by variable in toolset then applied on spawn, but as far as workarounds go I'd put it below my robes tests, and those aren't overly promising either.

  Really, just an internal switch to where it checks plt >> dds >> tga for all model types, using the highest priority type found, would be the ideal solution.  Then you could do all sorts of extra things not easily done now.
               
               

               
            

Legacy_The Amethyst Dragon

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2981
  • Karma: +0/-0


               

Failed.Bard wrote...
Really, just an internal switch to where it checks plt >> dds >> tga for all model types, using the highest priority type found, would be the ideal solution.  Then you could do all sorts of extra things not easily done now.

Definitely would be great.  Would make for even more variety without having to make all new models to go with new plts.
               
               

               
            

Legacy_The Amethyst Dragon

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2981
  • Karma: +0/-0


               virusman,

I've downloaded NWNCX version 0.2.5 several times now, and every time I open the .rar archive, winrar spits out a "diagnostic error" report, telling me about an unexpected end of the archive.

When decompressing the content, almost everything comes out fine, except the patch/vpatchprompt.exe, which it tells me is a corrupt file.  

Since the patcher from the 0.2.4 version works (and appears identical in date and file size) and it just seems to be a change in one or two of the .dll files, I've been able to use the 0.2.5 changes (I was able to do the testing with the helms yesterday).

Just thought I'd let you know.  I don't know if anyone else is having the same problem.
               
               

               


                     Modifié par The Amethyst Dragon, 16 juillet 2012 - 04:03 .
                     
                  


            

Legacy_Failed.Bard

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1409
  • Karma: +0/-0


               Have you tried extracting it using 7-zip, TAD?  That's what I'd used when I downloaded it.
               
               

               
            

Legacy_MerricksDad

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2105
  • Karma: +0/-0


               WinRAR 3.9.3 had no issues with 0.2.5 for me.
Also just wanted to say thanks to Amethyst Dragon for writing up some stuff for me to view on how to use this, and a very special thanks to virusman for making it possible. I got out of doing NWN work 6 years ago because what I wanted to do was either impossible or extremely time consuming and not worth the effort. Between this and OldTimeRadio's tutorial on plt+tga on the same model, I can now do just about everything I ever wanted! Now, as soon as the nwvault validates my posts I can start posting all my models and conversions. Thanks again
               
               

               
            

Legacy_MerricksDad

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2105
  • Karma: +0/-0


               I'd like a little kick to wrap my mind around these changes a bit, and here's what I see from my perspective. If I want to add beams, and because we have a 'range' in the engine from 600 to 700 noninclusive, that then means we have only a possibility of 99 beam animations total? Same with envmaps from 101 to 199, yes? And what is the internal limit on weapon vfx lines?
               
               

               
            

Legacy_virusman

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 448
  • Karma: +0/-0


               Yes, it's 100 lines per ProgFX type. If this limit ever becomes a problem, I can assign other number ranges.
Weapon VFX are limited to 255 FX types.
               
               

               


                     Modifié par virusman, 16 juillet 2012 - 02:16 .
                     
                  


            

Legacy_MerricksDad

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2105
  • Karma: +0/-0


               Not that I need more yet, but if somebody collects up a butt-ton of useful envmaps and texture covers, it might be nice to have another digit there. Not sure exactly what you are tinkering with, but it seems like the engine could be recoded to start with 0 and increment in the 1000's instead of 100 and increment 100. I do have a tendency to mass produce stuff when I get rolling '<img'> But again, no need yet, and if the weapon vfx system can't support my 200+ vfx I need to convert, I'll get back with you. Again thanks a ton for this change.
               
               

               
            

Legacy_virusman

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 448
  • Karma: +0/-0


               Changing it this way would break compatibility with the original 2da.
By the way, I just checked and edited my previous post: weapon VFX are limited to 255.
Maximum ProgFX value is 65535. Everything above 1400 is unassigned.
               
               

               
            

Legacy_MerricksDad

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2105
  • Karma: +0/-0


               ok so 255 weapon vfx, I can live with that.
I hadn't thought about the needs of the original game when I mentioned that...
good news on the progFX. So I assume we could have another range coded into the engine, say 6000-7000 for 999 more beams, at some point. Not that such is needed, but hypothetically yes? or would it affect the code less to simply use 1400-1500 for another beam set? And is the engine reading strings out of the beam 2da or otherwise limited to 255 currently? Not sure why I am even talking about this yet as NWNCX is too new to be messing with 100+ beams, but its a fantastic proposal.
               
               

               
            

Legacy_virusman

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 448
  • Karma: +0/-0


               Yes, we can assign hundreds or thousands to new vfx when it becomes necessary.
               
               

               
            

Legacy_MerricksDad

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2105
  • Karma: +0/-0


               I guess my only thought why I might ask this right now is maybe some numbers should be set aside early on to avoid ick later. It seems other graphic or effect limit has been requested lengthened at some point, and they started with more than 99 entries. While I haven't come up with models for 99 replacement effects yet, nor would anybody want to use all 99 of my textures if I did, I can easily think of reasons to have nearly 100 models for just beams at this very moment, even more for texture replacements. Not so much the envmaps personally, though I see its enormous potential.

Just in case anybody is interested in what I am getting at, here is a list of things Ive been working on since 2007:

1) Armor as robes + location models as accessories. For instance, you have robe 0-9 be nudes and undies. 10-20 might be clothes. 20-30 be actual robes. 30-40 fancy dress...50-60 light leather, 60's light chain, and so. Using the locational model parts, you could change just the bracer/gauntlet, necklace/pendant, boots, belt etc without changing a whole fleshed part. Using the info OldTimeRadio showed using TGA with PLT on the same model part, I can now go even further, having a non colorable portion, with a standardized portion. And now using NWNCX I could potentially switch out an entire model skin for another (shown in the video where the troll is made bloodied). Dungeon Siege 1 only had 4-5 base robes (per sex) that were textureable (not exactly how they did it but close). Even if you examine the models for Guild Wars 1 or even the newer TERA, you can easily see the base model is the same, just the applied texture and its transparency changes the overall look so much you don't see the lines anymore. To fully make use of that, lets say I have 10 models each of 10 different armor/clothing categories. If I want 10 textures I can put on each model, I then need 1000 total textures. So 1000 minus the base texture on each model is only 900 2da lines I would need. That's not including spell induced skins like bark/stone/diamond. I could easily reduce that number if I segregated content into mods, reusing the numbers in each mod for some other effect and changing all my scripts, and limiting armor types to specific mods, but not having to do that would be even better.

1.5) Bloodied hell! : I love the bloodied effect shown in the troll video, and after playing 4e, I really think the bloodied marker is an important use of texture replacement. I think every creature should have a bloodied visual, except where an actual model swap is warranted (hunched, limb missing, etc). But I do so hate the fade in fade out during model swaps. Its infuriating how much it takes you out of game immersion when your character goes faded blue just to change basic appearance. So lets say I have 100 creatures in a module that I would actually use during that module, I need then another 100 2da slots for texture replacement. But now think of 2-5 stages of color for people who might want to make monsters that power up or otherwise change color much like nintendo or capcom games of the 80's or even on the wii today (see donkey kong country or mario wii).

2) Long beautiful hair! : trying to find the best method for hair as a helmet, or even hair as a node (tried switching left shoulder up with good success rate). Hair needs a non-angular look to be best accepted now days. I strive for the hair you see in games like sims2 or newer, not this hair from 90's video games. Flowing, transparent-bounded textures is now the norm. I tried allowing the user to change their left shoulder (my hair node) model by using a mirror tool, or a comb, similar to how the sims does it. It was...ok. So now, how do I combine this with OF helmets and also make use of the transparency now available through TGA+PNG. (by the way I moved shoulder props to the bicep prop since they pretty much moved that way already and already looked goofy). I am actually thinking of trying hair as vfx! [adhd] Has anybody experimented with the monster nodes with placing hair, helmets or extra equipment? I personally think those nodes should be standardized on the player base to things like: back (to load equipment on your back), center chest (think iron man chest burst), at the feet (for making effects that touch the ground as part of the character). I know the base spell locations have a few spots, but variety is always good.

3) Beams to 4e and beyond: [rant] I dislike the limited ability to change and accept new things that I hear from a portion of the NWN community. "No no you gotta use only 3e and/or 3.5 stuff." I'd personally like to diversify the spell selection as well as racial and class abilities. If you look at how 4e spells are structured, you can easily see (at least until 10th level) what makes up a spell and why it fits its level. Using that as a base, Ive developed a ton of spells that could easily be patched into NWN. No they don't balance with 3e, but there is no reason to just keep using the base spells in the game just because they are ready made. This ability to make new beams opens a huge door that, at least for me, finishes a goal of making a huge array of energy beams, mixed type beams, and just wicked looking effects using the beam type as a base. I see absolutely no reason if one game has a spell effect that is sweet, that you cannot somehow port it over to DND and make it fit. DND isn't about fitting the books, its about creativity.[end rant] So we will probably need at least 99 beam slots for NWN in 2013-2014.

Sorry. If nobody can tell yet, I'm not into simple 2da and tile retexture changes. I need big big changes to keep me happy '<img'>
               
               

               
            

Legacy_MerricksDad

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2105
  • Karma: +0/-0


               ok, found an issue (I think) with rays. If I import a ray into nwmax and then save it back out without changing anything, it seems to work fine. However, if I change the base name say from vim_cold to vim_cold001 and redirect the animation to the newly named base it crashes the engine. However, its not every time. Sometimes the ray animation plays. The beam having two arcs sends one high and one low on the first fire. On the second fire it usually crashes. Getting it to even work on the first fire is rare. I'm not sure what is up there, but I am still trying to track it down. Any input?