Trouncing Brother Toras

[Legacy_PracticalKat]

               I've just managed to demolish Brother Toras three times in a row, after being thrashed before every time. Now that I'm a Rogue 10 / CoT 1 I can lay a trap field, take on the minions face to face and then lead the undead brother to a belated rest. The only time he bests me is when he catches me with Paralysis and I can't distract hiim with Linu because she's too far away.
I'm surprised how fragile Linu is.  I thought her defenses would be quite strong at 11th level, but she doesn't last much more than three rounds on her own. Any suggestions as to how to prep her better for this kind of encounter?
Atm she just has Whitebone armour and an Amulet of Wisdom + 1. 
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_MagicalMaster]

               The henchmen are rather weak in general.  They have terrible stats, bad feat choices, and lousy equipment decisions.

Also, if you're dexterity based (or even if you're not), use a Belt of Agility +X.  They all have Freedom on them which makes you immune to paralysis.  You can also drink a potion of Clarity to be immune to paralysis.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_PracticalKat]

               Thanks, MM. Yes, my character is agility-based.  I have a Cloak of Freedom that I could have used.   I knew it worked against Web, will check it out. 
               
               

               

                     Modifié par brendonwp, 02 octobre 2013 - 04:36 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_HipMaestro]

               Stacked traps along the walkway work very good (especially no-save Holy ones, if you have them) if you can get him to exhaust his spells without killing you and he goes into melee chase mode.  Not always as easy as it seems unless you have the appropriate protective gear.  I usually have problems against his long-range Evard's and Chain Lightning that can be a problem against poorly-protected average to low Con toons.

The best way other than traps that I've found is to use Clarity like MM mentioned (or that Daelen ammy IIRC is immune to fear), suck down an invis potion, a speed potion and then rush him for KD spamming.  Hopefully, you've selected at least the plain KD feat.  He is, after all, just a wizard without any discipline or True seeing and is easy to KD.  The only real downside in facing him with a rogue-intense build is the sneaks won't work.

I usually use Grim for his move/attack speed and occasional stuns but if you bring Linu along close to you after making her invis and speed as well, she may be able to get some whacks in while Toras is prone.

I really can't remember him trying Hold or Dominate my toons most likely because they are either beyond range of those spells or on top of him. He usually just casts projectiles or AoE.  Probably a pre-buff with Owl's Wisdom wouldn't hurt your will saves vs. those particular spells.  Mutamin's reward armor would also help if you completed that test already.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_PracticalKat]

               The last character that I tried on Brother Toras was a 9th level Bard with little in the way of gear, and it was a disaster.  So with my rogue I stocked up on Holy traps, winkled him out of his hide-away and used Linu to draw his spells while I was healing myself. As soon as he ran onto the walkway he was toast '>
I'm using a minor Ring of Power, the Robes of Cold Resistance and the Brawler's Belt so as long as I keep moving magical attacks rarely do much damage.  The Chain Lightning does hurt though.  My character is an archer who uses the rapier from time to time as needed - I was really surprised at how well he holds up in single hand-to-hand combat now.  I think the Shadow Legion armour + CoT level really help his durability.   Mobs are a different story.
The long and short of it, he doesn't have KD.  Must look and see if I can fit this in somehow.  Will also try Owl's Wisdom.  I've always just sold them before - duh!
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_MrZork]

               Hmm. Just out of curiosity, how is the single CoT level helping the toon at this stage? I could see better armor, but it doesn't sound like you are wearing anything a rogue couldn't already wear. Is it the shield proficiency? Using a rapier (a nice weapon for a finesse toon), he isn't benefiting from the CoT's extra weapon proficiency. And, while more CoT levels would eventually mean better AB, that's not a factor at rogue 11 / CoT 1. I guess fortitude and reflex saves are improved... But, it doesn't seem like one CoT level now is going to have that much impact.

Like I said, just curious.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_PracticalKat]

               I haven't looked at the stats, but the light shield + 1 that the CoT level allows me does help a lot.   If I forget to take it out I notice quite quickly.  After ten levels of having to run from anything vaguely fighter class I feel more capable in melee.
The CoT level came around the same time that I invested in a Thieve's Hood and the SL armour, so I can't say how much is due to the CoT. I AM looking forward to picking up more feats with CoT, though.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_cds13]

               Used this tactic playing with weak spellcasters, with a rogue should work either:

buy lots of scrolls to conjure creatures at level one (dire badger works fine here) say at least 15 scrolls, have a reasonable number of invis potions (or scrolls) where ten should be enough. Keep on conjuring poor badgers that will be the object of the terrible wrath of Brother Toras, he will use the nastiest spells to kill a single effortless animal. The idea is to let him finish his available spells that will be drained starting from the strongest to the weakest regardless the threat his opponent poses. You'll keep well hidden in invisibility, just remember that the badger should be conjured at medium distance from Toras since his poor AI will let him commit suicide by his spells if too close.
Once you'll find Toras going melee then it will be your turn to come out of the shadows.

Anyway trounle doubles if you have Tony K AI installed since his familiar (usually Eyeball or Imp) delivers quite a punch but even lots of XPs.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_MagicalMaster]

               

HipMaestro wrote...

The best way other than traps that I've found is to use Clarity like MM mentioned (or that Daelen ammy IIRC is immune to fear), suck down an invis potion, a speed potion and then rush him for KD spamming.

Clarity gives you immunity to paralysis from things like Evard's and Daelen's amulet does not.

brendonwp wrote...

I'm using a minor Ring of Power, the Robes of Cold Resistance and the Brawler's Belt so as long as I keep moving magical attacks rarely do much damage

Moving does nothing to reduce magical attacks unless there's a cloud or tentacles or something on the ground that you're moving out of.  Once you get hit by a fireball, for example, that's it, you take damage, it's over.

brendonwp wrote...

I think the Shadow Legion armour + CoT level really help his durability. Mobs are a different story.

The Shadow Legion armor is really good, yes, it has a high AC bonus which makes you hard to hit.  However, the CoT level does not really help at all (so far, at least).  All it has given you so far is 2-4 (roughly) extra hit points.

brendonwp wrote...

I haven't looked at the stats, but the light shield + 1 that the CoT level allows me does help a lot. If I forget to take it out I notice quite quickly.

You're really better off getting a large shield (or even tower shield unless you're trying to sneak around) -- they'll give better protection.  Incidentally, you can also pick up Shield Proficiency as a general feat without taking CoT if you wanted.  But enjoy fiddling around with stuff, the original campaign is forgiving enough that you don't really need to be optimized.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_HipMaestro]

               

cds13 wrote...
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You'll keep well hidden in invisibility, just remember that the badger should be conjured at medium distance from Toras since his poor AI will let him commit suicide by his spells if too close. 
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This is probably the most annoying occurance in the game to me.  Beat a boss down to almost nothing and then the bloke commits suicide with an errant cast.  They really need to script the AI better IMO, if for no other reason than to prevent broken monitor screens.  


That summon spamming IS handy.  The rogue's UMD should allow it to use the wands as well as the scrolls and without the scroll check to boot.  Those wands seem to drop a lot for me in the OC.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_MagicalMaster]

               

HipMaestro wrote...

This is probably the most annoying occurance in the game to me.  Beat a boss down to almost nothing and then the bloke commits suicide with an errant cast.  They really need to script the AI better IMO, if for no other reason than to prevent broken monitor screens.  

Well, then you get into stuff like the AI casting Fireball at a point far enough away from himself to avoid the AoE but still hitting the player (with the player in melee range).  It's possible to do this as a player but I doubt many people do -- pretty small margin of error.

AI stupidity is just one of the reasons I simply make AoE spells only hurt enemies in my modules.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_cds13]

               

HipMaestro wrote...

cds13 wrote...
-clip-
You'll keep well hidden in invisibility, just remember that the badger should be conjured at medium distance from Toras since his poor AI will let him commit suicide by his spells if too close. 
-clip-

This is probably the most annoying occurance in the game to me.  Beat a boss down to almost nothing and then the bloke commits suicide with an errant cast.  They really need to script the AI better IMO, if for no other reason than to prevent broken monitor screens.  


That summon spamming IS handy.  The rogue's UMD should allow it to use the wands as well as the scrolls and without the scroll check to boot.  Those wands seem to drop a lot for me in the OC.

They are indeed! Not the best tactic in terms of bravery but when I get in touch with Toras I usually have plenty of almost useless scrolls gathered together. I remember you are not too fond for opening chests but when you do you find yourself cluttered with useless garbage in a while. Toras is one of the best ways to get rid of low level scrolls and wands. I know you can always sell everything away but I really like to use "everything" I have at disposal.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Westan Willows]

               I play Sorc a lot and have Daelen hold position. I lure Toras's people out and have Daelen kill then.
Toras will go down. note I sometimes have to jump to the temple fast