Wizard build for the official campaigns

[Legacy_Hello there friend]

               I just found the complete edition for cheap on gog.com, and decided to play through it (until I get bored). So what could be more natural than to ask these forums for advice?

I've already partially decided on my build: I want a wizard with enough mental stats to get all the good conversation options, meaning 14 wisdom and 16 charisma, which I guess leaves us with 16 intelligence and whatever's left (not a lot) for dexterity and constitution. I also want to minimize the use of familiars, henchmen and summons.

Now - what spells should I get to survive this? Or, put another way, when playing through the OC, what spells and feats are best to select at levelup for an almost entirely solo wizard?
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_MrZork]

               You might consider the spell focus feats to increase the DC of your spells saves, since you won't be starting with super high intelligence, the wizard's main casting ability. But, really, you can get away with any moderately rational feat choices in the OC and, as a wizard, spell choice isn't super critical because you can learn spells from the scrolls you find and can buy. My only recommendation in that regard concerns the spells you choose during level-up: If you choose the spells introduced in the expansion packs during level-up (or, at least the ones you like), that might save you some headache in finding them in random loot, since they won't be available in stores. You should find the NWNWiki spell lists (e.g. http://nwn.wikia.com...r/wizard_spells) and linked descriptions valuable for exploring what spells do what.

One thing to consider, though, regarding your character design. Unless your character concept is really dependent on having a high wisdom and charisma, as a wizard you will be able to buff your PC into the "high" ranges using spells and potions. Not to mention that there are items (particularly charisma items) that you will likely come across and get from quests (and others you can buy) that increase those stats. That isn't to say there's anything wrong with a wizard having high scores in those stats. And, it's nice to not worry about swapping equipment or buffing before conversations. But, the option is always there to buff those stats instead, as needed.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_MagicalMaster]

               8 Strength
8 Dexterity
14 Constitution
16 Intelligence
14 Wisdom
15 Charisma (you only need 15 to qualify for CheckCharismaHigh)

Assuming you're human...

1 Toughness, Spell Focus: Evocation
3 Greater Spell Focus: Evocation
5 Spell Penetration
6 Greater Spell Penetration
9 Spell Focus: Necromancy
10 Greater Spell Focus: Necromancy
12 Silent Spell
15 Empower Spell, Maximize Spell
18 Extend Spell

Important Spells
Level 1: Mage Armor, Shield, Magicl Missile, Protection from Alignment
Level 2: Ghostly Visage, Combust, Endurance, Fox's Cunning
Level 3: Fireball, Haste, Find Traps, Scintillating sphere
Level 4: Improved Invisibility, Stoneskin, Elemental Shield, Lesser Spell Breach
Level 5: Firebrand, Lesser Mind Blank, Mestil's Acid Sheath, Cone of Cold
Level 6: Circle of Death (good against enemies level 8 or lower), Isaac's Greater Missile Storm, True Seeing, Undeath to Death
Level 7: Shadow Shield, Finger of Death
Level 8: Horrid Wilting, Mind Blank, Premonition
Level 9: Wail of the Banshee, Time Stop, Mordenkainen's Disjunction

Incidentally, if you ever would like to play someone else, let me know, I'd be happy to go through the original and/or custom campaigns.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Shadooow]

               You would also want to start with more str to carry more items. In first NWN OC you cannot give items to your henchmans to carry them for you (without game modification). The charisma/wisdom are usefull for persuading NPC to get better reward etc. yet the game is playable without it.

Of course, you can teleport in OC to the main hall everytime you will be encumbered, yet with 8base str that will be really very often.

Otherwise the build above is very good for generic playing, if you wouldnt know which ability to take at each 4lvl its intelligence.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par ShaDoOoW, 06 septembre 2012 - 12:49 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_MagicalMaster]

               You can get bags of holding pretty quickly (in Chapter 1) and you can also use Bull's Strength and other strength enhancements.  Unless you're carrying armor or large weapons, most stuff is pretty light.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Shadooow]

               

MagicalMaster wrote...

You can get bags of holding pretty quickly (in Chapter 1) and you can also use Bull's Strength and other strength enhancements.  Unless you're carrying armor or large weapons, most stuff is pretty light.

this is disputable

as MrZork said, you dont need such high charisma or wisdom just for better choices in conversations because the scripts doesnt check for base ability score so buffs from items/spells applies.

So if the player want he can help himself for this by pre-boosting int,char,wis abilities before conversation. But is it really such necessary? I found the possibility to carry more weight or have higher AC or have even more hitpoints much more profitable than having high charisma/wisdom to get different (not always better) choices in conversations.

All I wanted is to inform OP that strength has also meaning. Now its up to him what he prefers.

Summary:

Strength - melee damage, melee attack, maximum load
Dexterity - AC, ranged attack
Constitution - hitpoints - should be at least 12 for wizard, 14 preferably
Intelligence - wizard spell power and number - 16 at start, I would advise not more as that takes too many ability points
Wisdom - cleric/druid spell power/number
Charisma - sorcerer/bard spell power/number

the wisdom is occassionaly used for *insight* choices in coversation
charisma is often used for "trusthworthy" choices in conversation
               
               

               

                     Modifié par ShaDoOoW, 06 septembre 2012 - 05:52 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_MagicalMaster]

               

ShaDoOoW wrote...

I found the possibility to carry more weight or have higher AC or have even more hitpoints much more profitable than having high charisma/wisdom to get different (not always better) choices in conversations.

All I wanted is to inform OP that strength has also meaning. Now its up to him what he prefers.

8 strength: 73
10 strength: 86
12 strength: 100

So 4 more points of strength would let him carry *half* of a full plate more.  Just get Bags of Holding, strength is really meaningless for a typical mage.  There's a reason it's left at 8 in 98%+ of mage builds.

Edit:  You'll also sometimes need to invest in the actual Persuade skill to open up some dialogue.  If you're very concerned about it, we could figure out a way to make sure you persuade skill is fairly high (Wizards don't get it as a class skill).
               
               

               

                     Modifié par MagicalMaster, 06 septembre 2012 - 07:11 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Shadooow]

               

MagicalMaster wrote...

8 strength: 73
10 strength: 86
12 strength: 100

So 4 more points of strength would let him carry *half* of a full plate more.  Just get Bags of Holding, strength is really meaningless for a typical mage.  There's a reason it's left at 8 in 98%+ of mage builds.

Well, this is true - now add into consideration bulls strength and possibly items with str increase, because maximum load increases lot more later (or higher should i say). Its a difference to cast a maximized bulls strength when you have 8base str and 12.
8+5=13 -> 110pounds
14+5=19 -> 233pounds

so while it might be a difference of 27pounds at the beginning, you can see it that its more than double weight if you add other str bonuses into consideration.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_MagicalMaster]

               

ShaDoOoW wrote...

Well, this is true - now add into consideration bulls strength and possibly items with str increase, because maximum load increases lot more later (or higher should i say).

True, but the difference is still the equivalent of carrying an extra full plate for the most part, and you're really just better off getting bags of holding.

ShaDoOoW wrote...

Its a difference to cast a maximized bulls strength when you have 8base str and 12.
8+5=13 -> 110pounds
14+5=19 -> 233pounds

so while it might be a difference of 27pounds at the beginning, you can see it that its more than double weight if you add other str bonuses into consideration.

You said 8 and 12 and then compared 8 and 14 '>

13 versus 17 is 110 versus 173, barely 50% more.  And that 50% more is barely more than an extra piece of heavy armor.

In practical terms, a single bag of holding does more than three times as much as 4 (or 6) extra base points of strength.  And you can easily get like half a dozen bags of holding.

It really just isn't worth losing the other stats, a powerbuilt wizard would be something like

8
8
16
18
8
8

With the last four points put into dexterity (for reflex) or wisdom (for will).
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Hello there friend]

               Wow! So many responses - thank you all very much for participating in the discussion. It sounds like creating a wizard is more intuitive than I'd feared, which is encouraging. Since yesterday I've had a thought, though: I was thinking of adding points to dexterity and taking Expertise feats to boost armour class, since you appear to have quite a decent defense against magic damage from your spells. How awful an idea is this? It seems to me like you could get a very decent AC very quickly with defensive spells, but maybe enemies gain attack bonus too fast?
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_MrZork]

               For the OC, expertise works well to increase AC while casting. For future reference, you should know that there are modules where this doesn't work because Bioware made it easy to make it so that casting a spell cancels the combat mode. It seems like expertise-while-casting is commonly disabled on persistent worlds.

Also, keep in mind that expertise is a combat mode, and you can only have one of those active at a time. For mages, that isn't usually much of a limitation unless one likes using defensive casting mode (which I consider to be an annoyance to use, but it can be used without spending a feat). Generally, I consider expertise can be a useful defensive feat for casters, where it's allowed.

In the OC, it's not hard to use expertise and improved expertise along with other AC-boosting equipment and spells to create a mage who is almost untouchable to most of mobs and many of the bosses.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_MrZork]

               BTW, I agree that bags of holding are pretty much a necessity for casters. But, I also find it to be a pain to have a mage who is constantly encumbered and needs to spend too much time shuffling things in and out of bags to move around.

And, the PC is unlikely to have access to a bag of holding until near the end of chapter one and I think six total throughout the OC. But, the -80% weight bags work well, too and there are several of those in various shops.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_MagicalMaster]

               

I was thinking of adding points to dexterity and taking Expertise feats to boost armour class, since you appear to have quite a decent defense against magic damage from your spells. How awful an idea is this? It seems to me like you could get a very decent AC very quickly with defensive spells, but maybe enemies gain attack bonus too fast?

In general, I'd suggest against it.  Sometimes its possible, but usually you have the situation where weaker mobs will struggle to get past defensive spells like Premonition and Stoneskin or stronger mobs will have enough AB to hit you constantly anyway.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Shadooow]

               

MagicalMaster wrote...

I was thinking of adding points to dexterity and taking Expertise feats to boost armour class, since you appear to have quite a decent defense against magic damage from your spells. How awful an idea is this? It seems to me like you could get a very decent AC very quickly with defensive spells, but maybe enemies gain attack bonus too fast?

In general, I'd suggest against it.  Sometimes its possible, but usually you have the situation where weaker mobs will struggle to get past defensive spells like Premonition and Stoneskin or stronger mobs will have enough AB to hit you constantly anyway.

correct, dexterity based casters are fail, if you want ac, put more in strength, take one level of fighter to get armor/shield proficiences and wear armor - that is however effective rather after you get automatic still spell feats which are at epic levels. Before then, its not a good idea because of chance of failure.

Expertise is usefull, yet you dont need the dexterity for it actually.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par ShaDoOoW, 07 septembre 2012 - 01:33 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_MagicalMaster]

               I just don't really see the point of Expertise.  Weaker mobs will be mostly defeated by Ghostly Visage/Shadow Shield or be AoEed quickly, stronger mobs will hit you anyway (which is why you have Stoneskin/Premonition/Improved Invisibility/Damage Shields/etc).

You're giving up spell feats to improve yourself against the things that should be least threatening.