Author Topic: What's an optimal PVM build against megamobs?  (Read 265 times)

Legacy_Ukgnome

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What's an optimal PVM build against megamobs?
« on: March 09, 2012, 03:51:17 pm »


               This is more of a curiosity question as I tend to cheat with dm_god if I can't get past a fight but I've read most of the NWN 1 builds out there and I just can't find a build that works against mobs and they tend to be PVP.

So I thought I was escaping most of the challenge (and the tedious buffing/spell resting) by Leto-ing an instant Lvl 1 WM/Wizard/Druid build full of feats but apparently the guy is horrible even with Epic Dodge and Devastating Critical and spells. It hurts that the devastating spells like wail of the banshee are the ones I dislike.

It melees well enough without buffs including against the ordinarily tough monsters such as dragon but he's poor against the time stoppers and the Caereena (mod) crowd.

I admit if I wanted an easy fight I probably should've maxed the char at lvl 40 but I just like the idea of leveling the character through importing. 

With the Caereena monsters, I started out the module at lvl 20 and I did manage to get past Ritna (all immune/hard to hit hag) thanks to a custom item that summoned a sorcerer but later on with the last battles and the drow mob, it became a race of HIPS-ing against the grunts and constantly ressurecting the henchman which really stretched out the realm of logic because the henchmen had 100+ CON and still died three times while there was barely any time to heal and the spell mantles don't last long enough for the crowd and I believe the two bosses had true seeing and one was more of a warrior and the other was a spellcaster and there were a crowd of archers/attackers that can get past epic dodges.

With the final mob (Not really the final battle but it was the biggest mob. An entire chess piece designed floor where you have to start by heading straight to the boss and finish using a special item twice to summon a third special super henchman while the entire mob went hostile)

I don't even remember what happened. It was total chaos. The melee character had a handful but the greatest problem was keeping the henchmen alive because of the one being an NPC and the summoning needing to be done which already meant receiving several spells at the biggest damage dealers and being surrounded but what was worse was that even summoning the creature, the creature still comes close to dying. 

I believe I should've used a custom item that was in the same two chests where the special item action were to be done but with all the chaos, I forgot and just dm_god but Caereena really showed how this build sucks. With all the immunities, the WM was really weak and could barely hit the opponents. With the wrong spells, the character didn't really have a spell that could damage the mobs enough to insta-kill them and doesn't have the spacing or the slots to predict when to buff without reloading from a save first.

...then there was the OC which I started out on lvl 35.

The Liches casting TimeStops were common but they were survivable thanks to the horrible ai and spacing which makes them waste support spells while there was some wall or gate.

However there was this sidequest early on in the first chapter where you opened up a sarcophagus and three groups of three liches all open up and cast time stop back to back and all have dire tigers. It was decent enough for the character to survive but from a strategic point of view, I have zero idea how one can have a mob that beat this mob unless they specifically buff up or luck up on the third mob not detecting the characters.

I just can't see enough spell slots for IGMs and so the only way I saw how to deal with that was Wail of the Banshee which eliminated only one group of the liches. Maybe dismissal would have helped but then the liches still continue dishing out spells.

Then there are the lvl 1 mods that don't play well with importing for storyline or game model reasons like Ancient Heart that has 3 back to back megamobs of magical wolves, orcs, ogres.

I've read up on comments that manage to beat up on those mobs but I haven't read up on actual builds that can anticipate those mobs especially melee based ones.

The battle was easier than before with a druid 8/9. I had th elf ranger around and the Barbarian/Rogue. Although for the last wave trying to win without resting was a complete disaster. Had to reload and request a quick rest between the 2nd and 3rd wave. With all spells and HP back the third assault became rather easy. At one point the Commander rushed alone crossing the bridge and I felt that he would get himself killed. We managed to catch up with him and engage the general who was alone. At the end, we had no casualty in our party but the commander was the last soldier standing. On the other side there was a wolf running away. 

Got into Castle P. with the big guy. I have one big problem in there (now Druid 10/Sorcerer 2): if it is not possible to rest there is no way we can go further. Animal Companion/ Summons only last a couple of rounds. My char is not a melee char only the big guy can fight and I quickly run out of stoneskin to protect him. The only thing that could work would be to use a massive amount of traps (or spells like delayed blast fireball) and try to get all the soldiers to trigger them.


Worst part of this is that it's on Core.

On the plus side, it's not as frustrating as cheating on Heart of Winter difficulty for Icewind Dale at the beginning level.

Edit: Oh right. I also remember Death spells being a problem for this character.

I believe it's Penultima Rerolled that had these Huge Water Elementals that were immune to critical and were just all around tough mobs to crack. I believe it's a group of 4-5 that can suicide if you focus on one and were too much of a tank for arrows. It really was a pain to have the henchman stand their ground. I think this was an area that was meant to be skipped but considering how deadly I've been hearing the optimized builds were, I can't believe I haven't found a non-high level build that can deal with creatures that can suicide. (Maybe Shifter? That's the one class I never played with.)

The OC also has this in the form of the Huge Fire Elementals in Charwood. Groups of 8-10. Epic dodge really made that fight easy but the henchman even with 100+ Cons was dying/close to dying and I have no idea what support spells could have helped. If I'm not mistaken I think I had Sharwyn. Heal would have fixed that issue but without cheating, I have no idea how to survive that.
               
               

               


                     Modifié par Ukgnome, 09 mars 2012 - 04:10 .
                     
                  


            

Legacy_WhiZard

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What's an optimal PVM build against megamobs?
« Reply #1 on: March 09, 2012, 07:21:34 pm »


               If you are looking for a high level build that can melee well without a lot of buffs, and yet significant protection versus death magic and the like, you may wish to look at the druid/shifter/WM builds for those that can optimize the scythe for the risen lord.
               
               

               
            

Legacy_Ukgnome

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What's an optimal PVM build against megamobs?
« Reply #2 on: March 09, 2012, 10:18:23 pm »


               I've read about that build before. The annoyance with that build is that shifting is a polymorph version of buffing.

The main problem I see though is that death magic is the least problematic to bypass. There are items that provide those immunities and in the words of one of the guides, if you can kill dragons then why would you want to turn into one? (Yeah, there's an answer to that but I'm just paraphrasing.)

Risen Lord is great all around from reading the wiki (much higher SR than the unoptimized lvl 38 cheated char who only has 14) but at what WM/druid level does the melee damage match up seeing as the WM loses it's main damage dealer due to the mobs having critical immune?
               
               

               
            

Legacy_WhiZard

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What's an optimal PVM build against megamobs?
« Reply #3 on: March 10, 2012, 02:34:44 pm »


               So you want a specific build for tackling multiple Masterius the Lich King (CR over 160)?  Or are you falling to normal liches?
               
               

               
            

Legacy_Empyre65

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What's an optimal PVM build against megamobs?
« Reply #4 on: March 10, 2012, 09:05:29 pm »


               It looks like you're playing in a high magic world, so maybe a DEX-based Monk 30 / Fighter 4 / CoT 6, dual-wielding kamas would do the trick. You would have good AC, good saves, 40 SR that cannot be lowered, and lots of attacks per round. Or perhaps Monk 25 / Fighter 10 / Shadowdancer 5 to get Epic Dodge. Or perhaps Fighter 6 / Monk 12 / Weapon Master 22 for better AB. Just some ideas for you to think about.
               
               

               
            

Legacy_Ukgnome

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What's an optimal PVM build against megamobs?
« Reply #5 on: March 16, 2012, 04:05:06 am »


               With the OC, it's probably normal Liches. It seems less of a PC character then a PC failing to protect henchman build thanks to the Time Stops.

With Caereena, it's definitely special characters with immune on all levels.

With Ancient Heart, it's more low level characters being multi-classed too early.

Most times the threat of the mega mobs are that they can suppress Epic Dodge because the spellcasters are not just twigs while the melee grunts surrounding the character are all tanks who are then backed up by even bigger meatshields.

It's basic mob AI but imagine the easier to kill grunts are dragons (when they are easy to kill like the cheated character can 1-3 shot the weak OC dragon and the hard dragons are more troublesome for their damage reduction). Then behind them are the mega melee bosses backed by archers and multiple spellcasters (usually 3-4 although Caereena had 3-4 spellcasters + 1 boss spellcaster)