Having a very hard time getting passed the source stone

[Legacy_Fluorescentt]

               I'm a level 10 Wizard and level 3 Pale Master. I'm having hell defeating the lizard folk and the Chosen Ones are incredibly over powering. They cut through my summons and henchman like a hot knife through butter. I managed to lure all the warrior's back into the cave once you reach the point of no return and then cast invisibility and the cleric was still in the room that Morag spoke to her minions in. I eventually killed the cleric (i was out of spells) with umber hulk form and I got his key and unlocked the doors. I was mad because I couldnt rest and without those spells I would have ZERO chance of taking on Morag. Do you have to kill the cleric as well as the warrior's before you can rest before you batlte morag or can you not rest period? if that's the case then I'm gonna have to lure the warrior's back into the caves again and pray that the cleric is alone in the room again. After that I'll have no henchmen (im using Sharwyn) and all I will have is undead to summon and my familiar. And even at that I'm not sure I can pull it off seeing as Morag's hand demolishes me before I can cast anything. I fear that I'll never be able to beat the main campaign because I either screwed up leveling along the way or what.

any suggestions? is there anything I can do at this point?
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Gregor Wyrmbane]

               

Fluorescentt wrote...

I'm a level 10 Wizard and level 3 Pale Master. I'm having hell defeating the lizard folk and the Chosen Ones are incredibly over powering. They cut through my summons and henchman like a hot knife through butter. I managed to lure all the warrior's back into the cave once you reach the point of no return and then cast invisibility and the cleric was still in the room that Morag spoke to her minions in. I eventually killed the cleric (i was out of spells) with umber hulk form and I got his key and unlocked the doors. I was mad because I couldnt rest and without those spells I would have ZERO chance of taking on Morag. Do you have to kill the cleric as well as the warrior's before you can rest before you batlte morag or can you not rest period? if that's the case then I'm gonna have to lure the warrior's back into the caves again and pray that the cleric is alone in the room again. After that I'll have no henchmen (im using Sharwyn) and all I will have is undead to summon and my familiar. And even at that I'm not sure I can pull it off seeing as Morag's hand demolishes me before I can cast anything. I fear that I'll never be able to beat the main campaign because I either screwed up leveling along the way or what.

any suggestions? is there anything I can do at this point?

Once you get to where you are, you can't rest... period. You must have skipped the majority of side quests to be only total level 13 at the final battle. You should be level 16 or 17. I don't have any advice on how to win with your particular character as I never play casters. Hopefully someone else will be able to help you soon.

edit: You can try going back to a prior save before you passed the point of no return, and then use the console to level your character up 3 or 4 more levels (check the autosave). Even if you tried that where you are now, you wouldn't be able to rest and memorize your new spells.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Gregor Wyrmbane, 26 septembre 2011 - 02:59 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_HipMaestro]

               You're stuck unless you have a convenient earlier save.

A level 13 Wiz/PM will need to use scrolls.  You'll have to fight those 2 dragons again unless you have a save just just after you killed them but before you entered the sanctum.  There's not much other way for a low level arcanist.  The lizmen are immune to all spells Level 3 and lower so don't waste your time with those (wands are pretty much worthless there).  Horrid Wilting is the best way but keep your hench in the background and ask her to use her bow or she will get wilted along with the enemy going melee if you are playing on hardcore or harder.

Level 13 is indeed way too low for facing the OC finale but if you buy enough scrolls, you should still be able to complete it.  PM is not a very good class for the OC since it weakens your spellcasting significantly and you can't really get enough levels to be effective with that class.  Still, with all the high-level scrolls available at Eltoora's, it should still be possible to survive.  Maybe throw a few Time Stops in there so you can read a few offensive spells during the freeze.

The cleric is the best one to kill first because it can resurrect any dead ones or heal them.  The cleric holds the key to the next door so you can't skip him and wouldn't want to get flanked by lizmen in the Morag fight anyway.  Horrid Wilting is again the best spell for the end battle.

I hope you have been hoarding gold. You will likely need all you have because high-lvel scrolls are not cheap. '>
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_philty_]

               I usually play a pure Wizard (Illusionist), and I am very sorry to tell you the end battle is insane for casters. Additionally, your hench isnt exactly a good fighter: the Orc or the Dwarf Monk would be more advisable.

Also, because you chose Pale Master , you missed at least 3 Wizard levels, which would have gotten you to spells of magic level 7, instead of 5 as you are now. Not to mention you could be at least level 17 if you went solo pure Wiz.

Unless you have a prior save you are toast, unfortunately. It may hurt your idea of a powerful Wizard build, but the best spells a wizard has (as far as I have read mentioned here) are those that transform him into an awesome melee fighter (Tenser Transform, Bull Strength, Flame Weapon, greater Weapon, etc...). This is specially true, because all those end enemies have VERY high saving throws.

EDIT: I'm sorry - The best solution I got was a long-term stratefy (ie, since the beginning of the game) to keep ALL spells and spell-casting items I found, choose the PEnetration feats, 2-3 Greater Spell Focus feats and Empower, Maximise and some other I forgot. I believe my prefered spell-combo was: Bull Strength, Endurance, Cat Grace, Flame Weapon, Greater Weapon, Keen, Displacement, Haste (because in Tenser Transformation shape your Boots of Speed do not work), some of the Stoneskin spells, Mage Armor, Shield , Element Shield and some Spell Mantle. I dislike Summons to fight because they 'rob'  you off XP from enemies you kill.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par philty , 03 octobre 2011 - 03:34 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_jmlzemaggo]

               I never use summons either, for the same reason.
But I'm always confused why so many people use a spellcaster for his "melee spells". Why not just play a fighter then? And save the "buffing time".
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_HipMaestro]

               

jmlzemaggo wrote...
But I'm always confused why so many people use a spellcaster for his "melee spells". Why not just play a fighter then? And save the "buffing time".

True Strike, Greater Magic Weapon, Keen Edge, Flame Weapon for arcanists, not to mention damage shields; Greater Magic Weapon, Darkfire, Bless, Aid, Prayer, Divine Power, Divine Favor, Battletide for clerics.  Either one can reach the AB cap (+20), more damage potential than any fighter and still retain offensive spell capabilities.

A "pure" arcanist is not really best for melee (though a pure cleric is an awesome meleer), but a melee mage and battle cleric is so much more effective than a fighter it is well worth the buffing time.  The key is to obtain enough levels in the caster class so that buffs become indispellable (except by sorc/wiz with Mordenkainen Disjunction) and last essentially forever with very high caster levels.  That usually means that your PC will buff once and then can fight several battles only pausing to recast the short duration buffs if needed.

Melee casters are notorious for running out of quickslots, though... an admittedly annoying problem.

BTW, in the sanctum area of the OC, I'd recommend the OP to buy/use as many high level summons scrolls as possible since XP will no longer be a factor (THE GAME'S OVER! *lol*) and the "weak" wizard will need all the help it can get.  A party of 4 (PC, hench, summon, familiar) should allow the wiz to launch spells via scrolls with relative impunity.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par HipMaestro, 03 octobre 2011 - 01:11 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_philty_]

               

jmlzemaggo wrote...

I never use summons either, for the same reason.
But I'm always confused why so many people use a spellcaster for his "melee spells". Why not just play a fighter then? And save the "buffing time".

I see your point - why not simply play a fighter if you're gonna fight anyway? I meant that the Sanctum Part is *so difficult* for a pure arcanist that it becomes frustrating to try anything in an offensive spellcasting way. Hence the buffing stuff...

Acutally, I had some problem when fighting Desther's minions: I believe I was level 11 or 12 Illusionist and I simply could not kill all those foes (whenever I play I make it a personal mission to kill all, familiars first for their XP). And it took me some time to finish Desther and that was it, left many 'undead alive'....
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_jmlzemaggo]

               

HipMaestro wrote...
... A "pure" arcanist is not really best for melee (though a pure cleric is an awesome meleer), but a melee mage and battle cleric is so much more effective than a fighter it is well worth the buffing time.

You're surely aware how much I hate quoting you, as it's like giving you some credit for things you could eventually say, but rarely deserve it. Only... '> I have to admit...  that "Master Builder which, unexpectedly, you happened to be for some obscure reasons..." teaching's was, unexpectedly, interesting. 
For once. Unexpectedly. 
See that it doesn't happen again. I hate bad habits. As they're the only ones you'd keep for ever. 

I don't think many people, sorry, players, who cares about people here, know what you just said. 
About making a "builder basic tricks" thread. I kould evan translate it from beer in two anglish iff u lique. 

So you're saying, if you and I would ever go multiplayer, again don't get over excited, you would choose a spellcaster? 

That's... very right... , sorry I had a real hard time writing this... about cleric, I use them a lot myself as highly spell enhanced meleers... And they're first spellcasters to me as well. 
Just like you said...
I can't believe I just wrote that... 
That's the Shia syndrom. The woman curse!  
Bartender! Can you make... Yes, absolutely, triple! 
How did he know...? 
               
               

               

                     Modifié par jmlzemaggo, 04 octobre 2011 - 09:01 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_philty_]

               u sure all that was just beer?
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_jmlzemaggo]

               

philty  wrote...
u sure all that was just beer?

Oups! I checked my dictionnary, and you're right, I meant "bear". 
Hip is a bear, known to live in some remote mountains, with only bearesses around, many... and some bees and honey. He polymorphes in a human being only once in a while to be able to access the internet at his local web cafe. 
(Don't worry, he is an old friend, but much younger than I...)
               
               

               

                     Modifié par jmlzemaggo, 04 octobre 2011 - 01:34 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_philty_]

               ah - ok, now i get everything u just said in the former post!
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Magical Master]

               

philty  wrote...

I see your point - why not simply play a fighter if you're gonna fight anyway? I meant that the Sanctum Part is *so difficult* for a pure arcanist that it becomes frustrating to try anything in an offensive spellcasting way. Hence the buffing stuff...

It's actually incredibly easy if you have Isaac's Greater Missle Storm, and Horrid Wilting also can trivialize it.  I've played through the OC as a pure sorcerer and wound up at level 18-19 for the final battle.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_philty_]

               

Magical Master wrote...

philty wrote...

I see your point - why not simply play a fighter if you're gonna fight anyway? I meant that the Sanctum Part is *so difficult* for a pure arcanist that it becomes frustrating to try anything in an offensive spellcasting way. Hence the buffing stuff...

It's actually incredibly easy if you have Isaac's Greater Missle Storm, and Horrid Wilting also can trivialize it.  I've played through the OC as a pure sorcerer and wound up at level 18-19 for the final battle.

But even with a Sorceror having more slots t han an Illusionist... the Inner Sanctum has a lot of enemies and you cannot rest. Did you have to use scrolls, summons, familiar and hencies?
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_jmlzemaggo]

               It's a no rest area. And no coming back either once you've passed that point of no return.
I hated that part so much in my first OC, as a wizard, as I didn't make savegames at this time...
Your spells should be all gone once you reach the Sanctum. So yes, anything else, scrolls henchies, and strategy.
I still don't see the point of making thar part a "no rest" area.
You could find a wonderful cheat in my list below though, one which might work in the OC. Not tried.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par jmlzemaggo, 04 octobre 2011 - 08:39 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Magical Master]

               

philty  wrote...

But even with a Sorceror having more slots t han an Illusionist... the Inner Sanctum has a lot of enemies and you cannot rest. Did you have to use scrolls, summons, familiar and hencies?

None of the above as far as I recall.  I'll see if I can play through it tomorrow or Friday and FRAPS it if you'd like.