Combat questions

[Legacy_Spartansfan8888]

                This is basically a couple questions regarding concealed enemies and spell immune enemies:

Concealed enemies- Why is it that I can't cast spells on them but I can attack them?  And why don't my summons/henchmen attack them?

Spell immunity- Is there any way to bypass it?  Is this just in regards to status effects (like a blind/deaf spell) or damage as well?
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_HipMaestro]

               

Spartansfan8888 wrote...
This is basically a couple questions regarding concealed enemies and spell immune enemies:

Concealed enemies- Why is it that I can't cast spells on them but I can attack them?  And why don't my summons/henchmen attack them?

Furnishing the specific situation would help to diagnose this better.  For example, if you are referring to battling shadows, there are more factors than the concealment to deal with... like immunities.

However...

If a target is actually invisible rather than merely concealed, it is possible to position your PC within an effective proximity, spot them and still physically attack them.  In that case, the hench/summon AI will attack as well, but only if accidentally breaching that proximity zone... not very likely, unfortunately.

Another possibility is that your PC is under the influence of True Seeing (or See Invisibility) via spell or item prop and your allies are not.  In that case, one of the aforementioned buffs will empower your allies to cope with the enemy invisibility.  Of course, this is all assuming invisibility rather than concealment as the source of the problem.  Your allies should attack concealed just like non-concealed, just miss a lot.  Check your combat log to see what is happening.  Concealment effects should be noted.

Concealment alone should not prevent any attack, just limit the number of successful attacks.  AoE spells can damage any concealed or invisible (or those in sanctuary) foes as long as they lie within the AoE and are susceptible (not immune or resistant) to the effect.  Neither True Seeing nor See Invisibility buffs (or Invisibility Purge) will pierce pure concealment.

So when you state "can't cast spells", does this mean you can't target them or that the spells have no effect after they have been cast? 

Have you tried to target a spot near the "concealed" with an AoE spell?

Spell immunity- Is there any way to bypass it?  

Except for scripting quirks like implosion/death magic immunity, immune means invulnerable to that attack.  For example, all rakshasa are immune to all spells except level 9 spells.  All others have no effect, damage or otherwise.  There is no bypass that I am aware of.

Is this just in regards to status effects (like a blind/deaf spell) or damage as well?

I'm not sure if you simply mean "effects" in general or something else, here.  Sry.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par HipMaestro, 26 décembre 2010 - 11:59 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Spartansfan8888]

               Ok I apologize as I'm not really familiar with every spell and only a few that my cleric doesn't have but I'll try to describe what I'm experiencing.

Some creatures (most recently the lizards in the creator ruins in chapter 3) can be damaged when I cast a spell like hammer of the gods on them but a shield pops up around them when I cast blindness/deafness on them.  The only status they had that seemed to explain it to me was spell immunity.

Other creatures, the lizards included, use an ability or cast a spell on themselves and they're faded in appearance but I can still see them.  I'll try to target them with a spell and it won't let me.  I'll attack them and my cleric will take swings at them but my henchman and summon won't follow suit.  I did not try hitting a spot next to them but I have hit their summons to get to them too.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Spartansfan8888, 27 décembre 2010 - 03:03 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_HipMaestro]

               

Spartansfan8888 wrote...
Some creatures (most recently the lizards in the creator ruins in chapter 3) can be damaged when I cast a spell like hammer of the gods on them but a shield pops up around them when I cast blindness/deafness on them.  The only status they had that seemed to explain it to me was spell immunity.

Other creatures, the lizards included, use an ability or cast a spell on themselves and they're faded in appearance but I can still see them.  I'll try to target them with a spell and it won't let me.  I'll attack them and my cleric will take swings at them but my henchman and summon won't follow suit.  I did not try hitting a spot next to them but I have hit their summons to get to them too.

Ahhh... yah, the Old One lizardfolk. They all have racial immunity to all spells lower than lvl 4 so the blindness/deafness will fail.

The sorc evoker & wiz types can cast Invis, but if your cleric can cut through with one of the seeing spells (or if equipped with a True Seeing item), it can attack via melee but will have trouble targeting them with any ranged attack.  AoE spells will work as long as it is lvl 4 or higher, which is why HoG works.  The easiest remedy is to buff your allies with True Seeing before entering a combat zone.  Clerics with either animal or knowledge domains get TrS at lower levels than normal.  Purge Invisibility normally works as well but can't remember if it cuts through the lizardfolk spell immunity or not.  I'd give it a shot to test it.

If the enemy makes itself a bluish apparition it is using Ghostly Visage and concealed by 25% but still targetable. Take note that an invisible creature can cast a buff on itself (like GV) without breaking the invisibility effect.

Flamestrike is another spell that will work if you target a spot near the enemy though its AoE is not that large.  Blade barrier and Harm are two other devastating cleric spells if your cleric is at least caster level 11 and has at least 16 Wis.

Regardless, if it's simple invisibility, as soon as the foe attacks via spell or weapon, the invis disappears and the allies should be able to attack.  Be sure to click Attack Nearest once the enemy is made visible to kick start the AI again.

The best tactic I've used against mixed mobs is to attack spellcasters first.  If they are not True Seers, you can sneak up on them by dropping an invis potion on each ally and your PC then together mob the strongest caster.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par HipMaestro, 27 décembre 2010 - 04:53 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_avado]

               

HipMaestro wrote...
The best tactic I've used against mixed mobs is to attack spellcasters first.  If they are not True Seers, you can sneak up on them by dropping an invis potion on each ally and your PC then together mob the strongest caster.

LOL Hey That's cheating!  Casters first!  How are you supposed to have challenge if you kill the tough ones first? 

But, YES, kill the casters first, ESPECIALLY if you play an area with sick rules (like PRC, for example).  One time I had to fend off 3 Hell Balls in one fight!  Not fun   
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_HipMaestro]

               

avado wrote...

HipMaestro wrote...
The best tactic I've used against mixed mobs is to attack spellcasters first.  If they are not True Seers, you can sneak up on them by dropping an invis potion on each ally and your PC then together mob the strongest caster.

LOL Hey That's cheating!  Casters first!  How are you supposed to have challenge if you kill the tough ones first? 
 

Click with your eyes closed '>
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Spartansfan8888]

               Thank you once again for the advice HipMaestro.  I think I will try buffing allies with true seeing and/or using purge invisibility.  Harm never seems to do anything for me.  It never works unless the enemy is weak enough that Daelan destroys it with one or two attacks anyway.  



I have another question though; just what is this spell?  The giant demon boss at the end of the creator ruins casted this yellow vortex thing that killed Daelan instantly even when I buffed him with death ward.  The only thing that worked against it was to have resurrection prepared and to cast it during the spell so he could be revived in time.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_jmlzemaggo]

               Vortex? Implosion. My fav.
Now that the cleric is not even affected by his own spell anymore, that class is definitely overpowered.
Another reason playing a cleric as a spellcaster...
Long time I haven't played one actually. 'better, a blackguard, 'never tried it.
Anyone, a great blackguard story?

So far, I found Blackguard I - Dreams of destruction, (part I of a III serie)
I just realised a blackguard has almost nothing to do with a cleric... maybe a ranger, but it sounds a little weird...
[EDIT] taking that "no cleric" thing back. 'working on it.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par jmlzemaggo, 27 décembre 2010 - 05:52 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_HipMaestro]

               

Spartansfan8888 wrote...
Harm never seems to do anything for me.  It never works unless the enemy is weak enough that Daelan destroys it with one or two attacks anyway.  

That's odd. Just don't try it on undead, use Heal on those guys instead. (Harm will heal undead)
You could try taking spell focus: necromancy and/or casting a breach or mord just before to lower their SR a bit.  It's actually a devastating spell because you only need one hit after harm to kill them and it allows no save.

I have another question though; just what is this spell?  The giant demon boss at the end of the creator ruins casted this yellow vortex thing that killed Daelan instantly even when I buffed him with death ward.  The only thing that worked against it was to have resurrection prepared and to cast it during the spell so he could be revived in time.

Raise your fort saves either with items and/or +Con buffs and SR as high as possible. There are no Implosion-immunity items in the OC that I can recall. 

I have also used LONG range attack to beat up imploders but you need to keep kiting them to prevent them from gaining the implode range which is actually somewhat short.  Meleers like Daelen are easy targets, unfortunately.  Implosion is unaffected by death spell immunity.  Another tactic (waiting for the avado cheater accusation again '>) is to keep summoning "cheap" critters in front of them to force the imploder to waste the queued implosions. (I use wands myself but a cleric may need to queue a bunch of level 1 summons without a UMD multiclass.) Surprisingly effective strat against the standard AI.  Maybe TK's is smarter and will see through the deception?  Dunno.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par HipMaestro, 28 décembre 2010 - 12:33 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Spartansfan8888]

               I'm actually finding harm works GREAT when you don't cast it in a huge crowd of monsters beating on you lol
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_cds13]

               I was reading the post on the "killing the spellcasters first". I found rather a good tactic to attack all the brawlers next to the spellcaster, everytime the spellcaster casts one he receives an opportunity attack from you and could fail his concentration roll. You attack him for free
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_dfggg]

               hm
               
               

               

                     Modifié par dfggg, 09 avril 2011 - 11:37 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_cds13]

               :-) sure, when a spellcaster summons a creature I attack that creature first since it has more hitting power of the caster himself; by eliminating the major threat a free oportunity attack for every spell casted is dealed as well. If there are more enemies around and my character chooses to attack the spellcaster I make him attack another one. The spellcaster, if still alive, will be the last one.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_drwho188]

               Right. Really getting fed up of one particular issue in NWN2, and that's combat vs invisible/concealment. Firstly how do you remove concealment from an enemy? Although spells like True Seeing can dispel the invisibility, amazingly this does not remove concealment and you will still miss 99% of the time (so... True Seeing sucks then?)

Currently playing Storm of Zehir at the moment, found a battle very annoying in the Pirate Cave in the Sword Coast, against a group of pirates. Captain Alessa (a pirate who attacks), somehow becomes untargetable AT ALL - you can click on him to examine (lol) but you can't attack or cast spells on him. I looked up in the chatbox and saw he just used a potion of invisibility, that's it. And my party just stood there whilst he cast spells happily away, and we were unable to do anything about it until about 30secs later. I thought spellcasting stops you being invisible. What is going on???
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Krazy Solo]

               Unless the concealment is given via a spell there is no way to remove it.  If it is from a spell dispell will remove any spell from the lvl you need.