Author Topic: Aribeth's Fate?  (Read 1038 times)

Legacy_C Writer

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Aribeth's Fate?
« on: August 27, 2010, 09:37:54 am »


               I've just completed the OC for the second time and have persuaded Aribeth into surrendering herself to Lord Nasher (as opposed to killing her which I did last time), but I don't remember finding out what happened to her in the end. Although I do know that...


**HotU Spoilers**

Aribeth is found in the cave in Carnia (if that's the name) and therefore must have died, but that didn't have to be from the PC, or even execution.

**/HotU Spoilers**


Not that I didn't like the OC (it was in fact my favourite), I thought that it could have just had a little but more closure. So, has this bugged anyone else? Or have I just missed something here?
               
               

               
            

Legacy_HipMaestro

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Aribeth's Fate?
« Reply #1 on: August 27, 2010, 02:57:14 pm »


               Actually, I have usually produced my own finality when it comes to Aribeth's OC fate. ':devil:'  

I've always felt that rather than suffer the humiliation and possible torture at the hands of Neverwinter's corrupt judicial power, she should be afforded the honor of a warrior's death, a mercy killing if you like. Further, I always battle her mano en mano so as not to burden any other character with the burden of my PC's actions.  HotU pretty much confirmed my suspicions as to what her ultimate fate would be at the hands of the mob so the "final battle" scenario seemed plausible.  It was the revelation of her TRUE feelings towards Fenthick that caught me by surprise.

Seriously though, it has bugged so many, in fact, that it has spawned community modules which link the OC with HotU, furnishing all the closure one needs for the imprisoned Aribeth scenario.

I suspect it was an intentional nuance provided by the designers to wet our appetite for the sequel., but that is just one fan's opinion, of course, C Writer. '<img'>
               
               

               


                     Modifié par HipMaestro, 27 août 2010 - 02:07 .
                     
                  


            

Legacy_Westan Willows

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Aribeth's Fate?
« Reply #2 on: August 28, 2010, 04:03:55 am »


               I am not happy with the ending eather. They left it sooo open.
               
               

               
            

Legacy_C Writer

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Aribeth's Fate?
« Reply #3 on: August 28, 2010, 05:29:53 pm »


               I can understand why some people leave it open, but personally, I feel that not knowing exactly what happens in the end isn't very satisfying given that in the case of NWN, a number of things could have happened to Aribeth. It wasn't just that though, I was hoping to speak with Nasher and maybe Gend about what was to be done (since I didn't want to think that they were going to kill Aribeth - not sure why though, since she did try to kill me, although not very well '<img'>), but maybe I'm just being picky.
               
               

               
            

Legacy_Vipre

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Aribeth's Fate?
« Reply #4 on: August 30, 2010, 12:56:03 am »


               You didn't miss anything, it was just left hanging.  Presumed executed it seems but I personally have a hard time buying that after "saving the world" nearly single handedly the PC could be stopped from doing anything by the Militia of Neverwinter including killing the lot of them if they attempted to execute her.


Ever heard of these two module sets...
Aribeth's Revival
Aribeth's Redemption
They were made to "tie up", after a fashion, the story of the OC.

I plan to play one or the other...if I ever manage to get around to finishing the OC that is.
               
               

               


                     Modifié par Vipre, 30 août 2010 - 12:19 .
                     
                  


            

Legacy_C Writer

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Aribeth's Fate?
« Reply #5 on: August 30, 2010, 01:31:53 pm »


               I also thought that I should have been able to stop them. Because when Neverwinter came under attack, I was surprised at how weak the enemies I was fighting actually were; I would have thought that the guards should have been able to do a better job of defending the city. If they couldn't even handle the small invasion force and I could, then I hardly think that I would be incapable of preventing the militia from killing Aribeth. Or at least that's how easy it became for a level 19 sorcerer with seemingly overpowered spells like Mestil's Acid Sheath, Flame Weapon and Premonition (plus offensive ones).
               
               

               
            

Legacy_electricfish

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Aribeth's Fate?
« Reply #6 on: September 07, 2010, 07:00:11 pm »


               Why would Aribeth even have the chance to be saved from execution? Her crimes against her city, the people, and her god is justifiable reason to have her executed after the war is over. Aribeth did commit treason by exposing Neverwinter's secrets to the enemy, not to mention defaulted to an evil race of lizard people.

If your pc is good aligned, why would they commit a mostly evil action and try and prevent her execution? Evil aligned pcs are a little more likely to save her, but neither does the action have any identifiable benefit to the pc. You'll have a king who wants your head and a fallen paladin who seems to be pretty flaky by "unshakable faith in the gods" standards.

Lawful neutral pcs would probably be dutybound to follow through the excecution. Perhaps chaotic and true neutral would try and save her, but there's really no good reason for it given the scope of her crimes in the game world.
               
               

               
            

Legacy_Redunct

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Aribeth's Fate?
« Reply #7 on: September 07, 2010, 07:09:10 pm »


               

Zorr Crew wrote...

Why would Aribeth even have the chance to be saved from execution? Her crimes against her city, the people, and her god is justifiable reason to have her executed after the war is over. Aribeth did commit treason by exposing Neverwinter's secrets to the enemy, not to mention defaulted to an evil race of lizard people.
If your pc is good aligned, why would they commit a mostly evil action and try and prevent her execution? Evil aligned pcs are a little more likely to save her, but neither does the action have any identifiable benefit to the pc. You'll have a king who wants your head and a fallen paladin who seems to be pretty flaky by "unshakable faith in the gods" standards.
Lawful neutral pcs would probably be dutybound to follow through the excecution. Perhaps chaotic and true neutral would try and save her, but there's really no good reason for it given the scope of her crimes in the game world.


Chaotic Good characters would probably try to save her, depending on if the character thought it was justified to punish her for being mind controlled or not.

You're describing a chaotic action, not nessicarrily an evil action.
               
               

               


                     Modifié par Redunct, 07 septembre 2010 - 06:09 .
                     
                  


            

Legacy_HipMaestro

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Aribeth's Fate?
« Reply #8 on: September 07, 2010, 10:01:43 pm »


               I must be old-fashioned, literally.

Why not just let the "sword" decide the verdict and bypass the question of justification entirely.  In that case any alignment will have the same chance to live or die according to the influence of a higher power.  I've yet to meet any character in any of the campaigns in whom I would place my confidence in an unbiased decision.  Well, maybe Deekin  *j/k*

I mean... jousting worked pretty well in its time.  Let divinity bless the righteous and doom the unrighteous and accept the outcome based on that. 

If Aribeth's "rights" are justified, divine intervention will surely tilt the scales in her favor and will be protected from harm under the cloak of holy power.   Then again, if it's Aribeth's God vs. my PC's God, that is a whole other situation and discussion, isn't it?
               
               

               


                     Modifié par HipMaestro, 07 septembre 2010 - 09:03 .
                     
                  


            

Legacy_Bard Simpson

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Aribeth's Fate?
« Reply #9 on: September 08, 2010, 12:22:03 am »


               I agree with Redunct on the chaotic vs. evil nature of saving Aribeth; indeed, I can see it being a good act. Love and mercy both come to mind as motivations. A character who has fallen in love with her should want to see her spared, but a truly good and merciful one could wish her life be spared. To quote the real bard:

The quality of mercy is not strain'd,

It droppeth as the gentle rain from heaven

Upon the place beneath. It is twice blest:

It blesseth him that gives and him that takes.

Why couldn't a kind and benevolent soul wish to see Aribeth receive another chance and, perhaps, redeem herself. Is it truly more good to support the government that executed her lover merely to satisfy the mob?

Meh, even in fantasy, not everything turns out as we wish. I didn't write the story, I just played one part in it's unfolding. I'm just glad to have had the chance to do that. '<img'>
               
               

               
            

Legacy_HipMaestro

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Aribeth's Fate?
« Reply #10 on: September 08, 2010, 03:11:52 am »


               Ahhh... but therein lies the dilemma, Bard.

What is truly the merciful act?

To allow her the honor of a warrior's death or to submit her to the vengeful masses who have already proven their own version of mercy by putting Fenthick to death. Think about it.  Fenthick was no more than Desther's fall guy.  The mob deemed his irresponsibility as reason enough to order his death.  You really think the same hoard of crazies would provide a less painful execution for Aribeth?  Neverwinter's justice has been shown for what it is... an body that acts by emotion rather than with jurisprudence.  

You really have confidence that your PC's so-called act of mercy will be reciprocated by the masses?  I think not.  All the "mercy" will provide for her is a fate of rotting to death in prison or worse, to atone for the murders she herself was a party to.  The "The devil made me do it." defense will never hold up in any court of law, least of all in Neverwinter.

So it still comes down to recognizing what mercy really is in this case and how it is interpreted by lawful, chaotic, good or evil and all in between.  Any alignment can misconstrue what the merciful act is or guess right.

I still insist that the true mercy in this scenario is a warrior's death rather than the illusion of redemption followed by torture.  I don't think the alignment affects a PC's ability to discern the merit of either alternative.
               
               

               


                     Modifié par HipMaestro, 08 septembre 2010 - 02:28 .
                     
                  


            

Legacy_Bard Simpson

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Aribeth's Fate?
« Reply #11 on: September 08, 2010, 05:19:50 pm »


               True, Hip, I wouldn't expect any mercy in Neverwinter. I was actually thinking of my character sparing her life and taking Aribeth away from that city of bloodthirsty people. As Vipre and C Writer said, my character seemed powerful enough to pretty much do as he pleased (especially since I felt Daelan might well still back him up on even this issue); if given the option, I would have told Nasher to be content that I'd saved the city and then left with Aribeth. Since that wasn't a possibility, your choice may well be the best. ':blush:'
               
               

               
            

Legacy_HipMaestro

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Aribeth's Fate?
« Reply #12 on: September 08, 2010, 06:04:13 pm »


               It's too bad the designer's didn't give us lowly players some indication as to the actual consequences of our respective actions in that interaction... like some sort of alignment shift according to the chosen action. It really wouldn't have been that hard to do either.

I find myself in an ambiguous position with a comment like that since I feel the current alignment pigeon-holing system is pretty lame. But the adage "You dance with the one that brought you." I think applies to players trying to manage playing within the bounds of the designed dynamic.

My RP typically will afford my PC no more control than a hero contracted to perform a service, never with illusions of godhood.  Even with overwhelming combat capabilities, I never feel as though my character has the power to control the impetus and attitudes of an entire municipality.  As independent as a PC is designed to be, in the overall environment a PC is still only a spoke on a wheel.  I'm speaking RP-wise in this respect, of course.

I find it pretty ironic that in HotU, Aribeth remembered everything that happened in Neverwinter OTHER than our memorable battle-to-the-death tête-a-tête.  Whatever her fate was, partial amnesia must have been one of the effects.  Love knows no bounds! '<img'>
               
               

               


                     Modifié par HipMaestro, 08 septembre 2010 - 05:20 .
                     
                  


            

Legacy_Poecile

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Aribeth's Fate?
« Reply #13 on: September 08, 2010, 09:08:20 pm »


               

Zorr Crew wrote...

Why would Aribeth even have the chance to be saved from execution? Her crimes against her city, the people, and her god is justifiable reason to have her executed after the war is over. Aribeth did commit treason by exposing Neverwinter's secrets to the enemy, not to mention defaulted to an evil race of lizard people.
If your pc is good aligned, why would they commit a mostly evil action and try and prevent her execution? Evil aligned pcs are a little more likely to save her, but neither does the action have any identifiable benefit to the pc. You'll have a king who wants your head and a fallen paladin who seems to be pretty flaky by "unshakable faith in the gods" standards.
Lawful neutral pcs would probably be dutybound to follow through the excecution. Perhaps chaotic and true neutral would try and save her, but there's really no good reason for it given the scope of her crimes in the game world.


There are ample reasons given in game as to why Aribeth's life should be spared and that she should be offered a chance at redemption, copy and pasted from my posts on the old forum:

Morag waited till Aribeth was alone and sleeping in Port Llast where she was, basically, defenseless to withstand Morag's 'forced entry' (into her mind and dreams) magical tamperings.

As Haedraline revealed-

"The one you call Aribeth has fallen under Morag's spell. Some terrible fate left her vulnerable to Morag's corrupting evil. My Queen touched her mind through her dreams, feeding a dark and festering hatred until it consumed all else. Aribeth is a slave to Morag's evil now."

 If Aribeth was so eager to join up with the Host Tower, why did it take several nights of these clandestine and nefarious encounters to finally push Aribeth over the edge?


Aarin-- "The noble paladin earns my pity, friend. Her heart has been broken and her faith shaken... I do not think 'well' is a word that will describe her
ever again. I am informed that she has been plagued by terrible nightmares that keep her from rest. She speaks horrid things in her sleep, frightening the servants. I
can only imagine what the elf sees when she closes her eyes. She will not confide in me, nor will she agree to return to Neverwinter. I worry for her, truly."


Hmm, even Aarin concurs that something terrible is happening to Aribeth during the night, as did Aribeth herself.

And after Morag had reached her goal, Aarin had this to say...

Aarin-- "Aribeth has stirred from her grief, but not as I'd hoped. She has replaced it with a frightening rage that she almost cannot contain."

Aribeth was in Port Llast looking for answers to her doubts and questions about Fenthick's execution, about failed justice, about her own crisis of faith.

And you know, yes, she was angered by the reaction of the citizenry to Fenthick's execution, as would any sane individual who happens to watch their betrothed hanging from a noose before a cheering mob.

So this anger that she had, you would think it would have boiled over on its own, but instead of storming off to Luskan right then and there, she went to Port Llast and she sought answers and she prayed and she meditated.

Then who shows up, none other than MORAG, guised as Tyr to spurn Aribeth's soul searching. Then night after night, Morag returned to mess with her head, Aribeth frightened the servants with her nightly torment.

"My Queen touched her mind through her dreams, feeding a dark and festering hatred until it consumed all else. Aribeth is a slave to Morag's evil now."

Aribeth did not run off to Luskan until Morag messed with her head, PERIOD, end of discussion.

If Morag was so convinced that Aribeth would join up with the enemy, then why would she resort to using her magics to increase the odds?

She could have relied on conversational persuasion rather than administering a dose of potent magics into Aribeth's mind. Same reason people use alcohol or spiked drinks to make others more pliable.

Really, someone should have stepped in and taken control of Aribeth's well-being. Everyone knew that she was experiencing some very traumatic incidents while she slept, someone should have had her placed under the care of watchful and trained caregivers.

But this all happened at the end of a devastating plague and many people were still dealing with the aftermath of the Wailing Death. The concern for Aribeth's condition fell between the cracks.

The PC faces off against Aribeth in Maugrim's estate, he/she can break through and reach Aribeth's better senses without having to kill her in the end.

She tells the PC after the PC says-

"It is not too late, Aribeth. There is still a chance to make things right."

Aribeth- "...And I have been too long under Morag's power. The Queen has a... a hold on me. I could not stand with you against her, even if... even if I wanted to. I cannot help the city."

and the PC can say during the same conversation-

PC- "Join with me, Aribeth - together we can defeat Maugrim and Morag!"

Aribeth- "No! I... I dare not. I have served Morag for too long. She had a... a hold over me. I am afraid if I must face her or Maugrim I might once again fall under her sway."

and, meeting with Aribeth back in Castle Never's prison-

"Join with me to fight Morag" (into the Source Stone)


Aribeth - "I served too long under the Queen of the Old Ones. She has a... a hold over me. A power I fear I might not be able to resist."


If you are Morag, do you give the keys to your army to someone who has the freedom to do as they please, especially since Aribeth was with her rivals? Aribeth corroborates what Haedraline revealed.

Everything reveals the same thing. From Maugrim to Aribeth to Aarin to Haedraline to Aribeth again to Asheera. People who support Aribeth are not basing their stance on whimsical fluff.

Here are even more revealing lines...
Host Tower conversations regarding Aribeth's condition


PC- "You trust a traitor to lead an army?"

Gurak Entraispiller (Orc Ambassador)-
"Traitor, elf, whatever. Maugrim say he has her under control real good, so me not have much worry. If it go bad, orcs kill wizards and go home."

PC- "You trust a traitor to lead an army?"

Yeanasha (Elk Tribe Barbarian Ambassador)-
"If the elven wench steps out of line, she'll not get far. I am assured by Maugrim, however, that this Aribeth is quite firmly under his control."

PC- Who are his (Maugrim's) supporters... Aribeth?

Rimardo (Overwizard of the East Tower)-
"Yes, he... he has seduced her soul, just like all of his other followers. I do not know how, but he has pushed her to betray her own people."

and, meeting with Aribeth back in Castle Never's prison-

"Join with me to fight Morag" (into the Source Stone)


Aribeth - "I served too long under the Queen of the Old Ones. She has a... a hold over me. A power I fear I might not be able to resist."

the fall of Helm's Hold and the ruin of Neverwinter imply that Morag had an abundance of power to contend with the deities of Faerun.

Aribeth had ample opportunity to flee to the Host Tower of her own volition, yet she was content to pack up her bags to head out to Port Llast. She sought counsel, she prayed, she meditated, she questioned the PC...

The answer to her prayers was Morag in the guise of Tyr and Morag made it seem that Tyr turned her back on Aribeth, leaving her alone to suffer the nightly torment. Aribeth felt she was being punished for having doubts about justice and asking questions.

This was doubly impactful, as Tyr did have legitimate interaction with Aribeth during her dreams while she rehabilitated in the Ilmateri Monastery.

She was crushed, heart-broken, faith-shattered... she was easy prey for Morag, all things considered and Tyr would consider all things.

"The pain of knowing that his mortal charges cannot hope to initiate and protect a flawless, completely just orderly existence tinges Tyr's philosophy with an undercurrent of resigned sadness."- Faiths & Pantheons pg.79

There is a "paternal leniency and understanding" there, a quality of goodness.


From BearThing on the old forums:

To my thinking, this raises questions as to the degree that someone whose mind is being tampered with is able to gauge their own motivations and behavior. But, since we don't have a full explanation of how Old One magic might have worked (and since the prosecution claims there wasn't any magic involved, just persuasion) let's try to find another example of someone who is "under the influence."

Defense calls Esmerelda to the stand.


Quote: 
- Who are you?

I am Esmerelda, one of Master Ford's students. He has me concocting philters of crushed gems, as if he hopes that will give him some insight into the Source Stone.

- Who is Master Ford and where can I find him?

He's a well-known archeologist. Well-known in his field, anyway. It's a rather small, tight-knit group. Most of them have died off, tampering with arcane treasures they've unearthed.

Normally Master Ford has the sense not to mess with magic, but he's fascinated by the Source Stone. That's him over there by the door.

- What do you know about the Source Stone?

I know it's a thing of great power - and great evil! I wish we had never found it. There's something alive inside - that's what Master Ford says.

You'd think that would make him more cautious, but he's behaving very strangely. It's like the stone has some strange hold over him.

Hmmm... the archeologist's assistant seems to think he is behaving abnormally. Let's see what the man himself has to say. Defense calls Master Ford.


Quote: 
- Who are you again?

I am Master Ford, Neverwinter's foremost expert in ancient artifacts and historical treasures. In short, an archeologist.

When the Source Stone was discovered here beneath Castle Never, Lord Nasher wisely appointed me to investigate its secrets. What I have uncovered so far has been fascinating!

- What do you know about the Source Stone?

The stone radiates a magical heat strong enough to keep the entire city warm even in this chill climate, yet gentle enough that you can actually go right up and touch the stone itself.

That is all we really know for certain. However, I have several theories based on my own examinations and extensive research into ancient manuscripts.

My research indicates that there is an entire extra-planar realm within its gleaming crystalline surface; a nexus of many parallel worlds, a conduit linking alternate planes and universes with each other.

And something lives within the Source Stone as well. Of that I'm certain. A powerful life force emanates from the stone - probably from the inhabitants of the extra-planar realm.

- Don't you think it might be dangerous to unlock the secrets of the Source Stone?

You sound like my assistant Esmerelda. She wants nothing to do with the stone. But I am well aware of the risks involved.

And yet... I cannot leave the stone alone. When awake it consumes my thoughts and at night it haunts my dreams. It calls to me... it *wants* me to unravel the mysteries contained within!

- You feel the call of the ancient evil that dwells within the stone, Master Ford. Beware lest it consume you.

My assistant Esmerelda said the same thing. I'll tell you what I told her - I'm an experienced archeologist. I know what I'm doing. Don't worry about me.


'Aribeth's Revival' Module
               
               

               


                     Modifié par Poecile, 08 septembre 2010 - 08:18 .
                     
                  


            

Legacy_HipMaestro

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Aribeth's Fate?
« Reply #14 on: September 09, 2010, 12:10:08 am »


               OMG,! The community finally drew Poecile into an OC thread.  "Lovely, lovely Aribeth" has been resurrected!

It was the Aribeth's comment
"His (i.e. Fenthick's) blood is on their (i.e. the Neverwinter mob's) hands. We are all guilty here, and we are all deserving of death."
that seemed to indicate her resignation of a blood resolution to the situation.  At that point, she seems to have regained her morality enough to recognize her fate.
               
               

               


                     Modifié par HipMaestro, 08 septembre 2010 - 11:16 .