Author Topic: Henchman solutions  (Read 4679 times)

Legacy_jmlzemaggo

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Henchman solutions
« Reply #15 on: November 08, 2011, 09:41:40 am »


               No better options through his dialogue? Weird...
Would they come only with Tony K's AI?
First thing to do: get rid of the bow, and give him the axe only.
If that's not enough... you might find that AI in that 1° list in my signature.
And finally fully enjoy NWN.
               
               

               
            

Legacy_HipMaestro

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Henchman solutions
« Reply #16 on: November 18, 2011, 01:51:55 am »


               

jmlzemaggo wrote...
First thing to do: get rid of the bow, and give him the axe only.
 

Hench inventory is only accessible in the OC with a custom hench utility running in the background.

In vanilla, the problem requesting weapon switching is a common one, but needs to be addressed through the convo interface.  That's how it was designed.  Some times, it takes quite a while for the standard AI to recognize the appropriate conditions for the switch to occur, but keep plugging away.  One might also try to reset the party proximity choice to "Stay close" (or whatever it is called).  A combination of a far distance and "change to melee" may be a conflict within the AI until a condition occurs where an enemy is very close AND the hench is a great distance away from the leader... sychronously.

Not sure what Console, Gold only means either. ':unsure:'
               
               

               


                     Modifié par HipMaestro, 18 novembre 2011 - 02:01 .
                     
                  


            

Legacy_Versenwald

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Henchman solutions
« Reply #17 on: February 13, 2012, 06:18:14 am »


               You know that bug whereby your henchman will just stand there, not attacking, while you fight for your life?  I finally figured out that this was only happening when they were invisible.  Apparently, they don't want to break their invisibility by attacking, and this overrides the rest of their AI, and even the "attack nearest" command from the radial menu.

This explains why resting would temporarily fix the issue:  It causes the invisibility effect to wear off.

Just thought I'd share, since a web search shows that other people have had the same problem.  (Unfortunately, the threads where I found them were locked, so I couldn't address them directly.  So I'm putting it here.)
               
               

               
            

Legacy_MrZork

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Henchman solutions
« Reply #18 on: February 13, 2012, 12:09:18 pm »


               I have never had that particular problem; it sure seems that invisibility (via rings, scrolls, potions, spells, etc.) is so common in the OC that someone would have noticed that before...

But, it may be useful for folks to know that Tony K's AI (see the Add-ons & Tips sticky in the NWN1 General Forum) improves on the game's default AI for associates and allows them to attack while invisible. At least my familiars (which tend to have Improved Invisibility) have no hesitation about attacking while invisible.
               
               

               
            

Legacy_Shadooow

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Henchman solutions
« Reply #19 on: February 13, 2012, 12:27:30 pm »


               

Versenwald wrote...

You know that bug whereby your henchman will just stand there, not attacking, while you fight for your life?  I finally figured out that this was only happening when they were invisible.  Apparently, they don't want to break their invisibility by attacking, and this overrides the rest of their AI, and even the "attack nearest" command from the radial menu.

This explains why resting would temporarily fix the issue:  It causes the invisibility effect to wear off.

Just thought I'd share, since a web search shows that other people have had the same problem.  (Unfortunately, the threads where I found them were locked, so I couldn't address them directly.  So I'm putting it here.)

AFAIK this bug is caused by the 1.69 horse menu, pre-1.69 invisibility wasn't an issue. Try my unofficial patch, that should fix it. Tony K may not have this issue as well though I havent looked into it yet.
               
               

               


                     Modifié par ShaDoOoW, 13 février 2012 - 12:28 .
                     
                  


            

Legacy_HipMaestro

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Henchman solutions
« Reply #20 on: February 13, 2012, 01:16:07 pm »


               

Versenwald wrote...

You know that bug whereby your henchman will just stand there, not attacking, while you fight for your life?  I finally figured out that this was only happening when they were invisible.  Apparently, they don't want to break their invisibility by attacking, and this overrides the rest of their AI, and even the "attack nearest" command from the radial menu.

This explains why resting would temporarily fix the issue:  It causes the invisibility effect to wear off.

Just thought I'd share, since a web search shows that other people have had the same problem.  (Unfortunately, the threads where I found them were locked, so I couldn't address them directly.  So I'm putting it here.)

If the invisibility is due to the PC buffing it onto to a hench (via spell or potion) the remedy should be obvious... don't use it. '<img'>  Since the hench is not detectable by foes, they won't initiate an attack until they are detected.  Try dispelling the invisibility yourself to test it.  Unfortunately, it may dispel other buffs that may have been applied as well.  That's not so much a bug as an unanticipated property of the AI design.  In that case, a custom hench AI like Tony K's may help (I leave it to the custom AI-users to expand on this potential).

If the invisibility is due to the hench being a spellcaster, like Sharwyn, Linu or Boddyknock...

The spellcaster AI is very poor with the vanilla OC AI. There are too few alternatives available via convo to control the actions.  Usually a spellcaster will attempt to exhaust all available buffs before engaging in combat which can mean the combat will be over before they begin casting spells or attacking by physical means.  Once again, a custom hench AI could help remedy this.

TBH, for my own use, I simply stick to the vanilla AIs that are manageable in the OC and have no problems using the hench in combat (which means Boddyknock can take a seat... permanently).  In the expansions, there are more extensive means to alter hench behavior, enough so that a custom AI is no longer "essential" to feeling in control.  It does, however, require some focused experimentation with each distinct hench until the desired level of control is mastered.
               
               

               
            

Legacy_Versenwald

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« Reply #21 on: February 13, 2012, 11:17:51 pm »


               HipMaestro, the invisibility is due to one henchman casting it on another.  (That's probably why this problem is more easily solved elsewhere.)  This is a result of giving the "cast all of your long-term buffing spells on everyone in the party" command, so I don't have a convenient in-game way to prevent it.  I was going to code it to just not include invisibility among these buffs, but it will be better if one of the other suggestions works.

MrZork, I haven't tested tested to see whether the problem occurs with Improved Invisibility, but since the point of that spell is that it protects you even while you attack, I doubt it would cause this behavior.  (It's still worth checking, of course.  I just haven't gotten up to that yet.)

ShaDoOoW, thanks!  I'll look into your unofficial patch shortly.

I'll have to check out Tony K's AI too, of course.  I'm working on my first mod, and so hadn't heard of it yet.  I've already installed (and strongly customized) the Module Builders Henchman Kit v2.3a for this mod, and I'll be surprised if trying to use both together doesn't entail a nightmare of resolving conflicts, but I'm prepared for the chance of a pleasant surprise.  Thanks, all!
               
               

               
            

Legacy_HipMaestro

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Henchman solutions
« Reply #22 on: February 14, 2012, 01:58:47 am »


               

Versenwald wrote...
HipMaestro, the invisibility is due to one henchman casting it on another.  (That's probably why this problem is more easily solved elsewhere.)  This is a result of giving the "cast all of your long-term buffing spells on everyone in the party" command, so I don't have a convenient in-game way to prevent it.  I was going to code it to just not include invisibility among these buffs, but it will be better if one of the other suggestions works.

That's not part of the OC spellcasting AI.  As a matter of fact, any hench with spellcasting capabilities in the OC cannot be toggled on/off at all.  The only choice you get is melee versus range weapon (besides the standard radial commands, that is).

You may be thinking of HotU which uses a significantly different and superior hench AI and control system.  The problem with the invisibility bane is typically related to using Nathyrra as a hench when she implements her assassin ability, seemingly at random, during combat.  And TBH, I have Deekin cast Imp Invis on the entire party all the time and never experienced any problem with them engaging in combat.  I have used v1.66 through v1.69 and this has never changed so i seriously doubt the latest patch is to blame for what you are experiencing, not in the OC & expansion campaigns, anyway.

Are you sure you have nothing in your override folder, hak folder or otherwise modified default scripting?  Your description seems to indicate that either the original AI wasn't installed properly or you have some customization in effect. 

edit: Hmmm.  I just realized you stuck this into the OC forum when it may not apply to it at all.  THIS^^ topic was intended to be dedicated exclusively to the OC henchmen issues and addresses none of the expansion henchmen at all.  If this is a potential scripting, custom content  or utility issue, you may get better suggestions in those subforums than here. 
               
               

               


                     Modifié par HipMaestro, 14 février 2012 - 02:11 .
                     
                  


            

Legacy_Versenwald

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« Reply #23 on: June 03, 2012, 09:50:29 pm »


               HipMaestro, you're right.  I posted in the wrong forum.  (And after trying hard not to...  Perhaps I should only post when more awake.)

ShaDoOoW, your patch looks awesome.  I played around with it for a while.  I'm working on a module, though, and incorporating the whole patch to address one problem seems like nailing in a brad by crashing a Hummer into it.

MrZork, thanks for the tip.  I'll look into Tony K's AI next.