Helping Each Other

[Legacy_henesua]

               

Since this is a really long and self indulgent post, I want to put the point at the beginning.

 

I think we should each help each other's projects more often. Too many of us go it alone and fail to realize our own visions. Going solo can work but it doesn't always. And so with that in mind I'd like to encourage those with the itch to create stuff to offer their help to existing projects. Not my projects. Because none of mine are currently active, but to the projects out there that appeal to you at some level. Thats the gist of this. And please respond to this thread if you have any thoughts on this to discuss. I'm not interested in arguing, but I think some discussion would be great.

 

 

Self indulgent ramble begins:

 

After dealing with a career change this year (which I feel lucky in so far), I've begun reassessing my commitment to NWN. A little background on me in NWN: I came to the NWN PW scene late (2006) and on a Mac at the time (who primarily played with deving in Unity) so it was not until really late that I actually stepped into the toolset (2010) and even later until I did anything of substance. But I've worked on 3 PWs since then in a major capacity (as in did everything). One was my own, Arnheim, which I never truly released as a PW even though it is built as one (we played it as a closed campaign in which I also sometimes ran parallel adventures on off nights because I am crazy and had too many payers to play all at once), and the other two were related to the Vives PW (the original and a reboot that we call Llyra). While my rewrite of the original Vives is still running somewhere, the other two projects - Arnheim and Llyra - are sitting around quietly offline after having only a moderate amount of play.

 

Why am I not still supporting those other two projects? This is an important question, and what this post is really about. So please bear with me. I feel like telling a story here. My problem with PW development is that I get bored after I make something cool, and often want to go make something even better. I know I am not the only one with this flaw. I see it in the community all the time. I also have a feeling that in this community burn out is another issue that leads to abandonment of really cool stuff. Ye Olde Fog for example appeared to be building some really nice areas in his PW project, and had made lots of them. But you can only go so long doing such great work by yourself and he eventually tried to hand the module over to some people (I was one of them but politely refused). While burnout is not really a problem for me because I don't actually care if anyone but me ever plays my stuff, it is for others. I've seen it. I've talked to some really brilliant builders that walked away after burn out. I recall talking with Vaei years after they stepped away (one of the community's unsung heroes who I admired greatly when I started out and who after their PW days were done left us with those cool animations.) After chewing the cud for a few emails, I invited Vaei back. Because Vaei is brilliant. Vaei was a visionary kind of builder that could do a little bit of everything and thus saw the big picture and thought outside the box. But I was quietly refused. After getting burned out on the politics of it all and churning away solo on other stuff, Vaei was done. That was really sad to me but at the time I was not overly concerned because there were so many other people to potentially build and DM with.

 

With a smaller community however I think this becomes more problematic. I am not going to throw out the hyperbole that NWN is dying. That is just nonsense. BUT it has lost its critical mass of builders and DMs. Back in 2006 when I started playing PWs seriously I was amazed with the amount of DM talent that glomped on to each server. I saw that fade at Vives during the period 2007-2010 after the brilliance of my early experiences there. Those early experiences however blew me away. I was addicted to playing due to the level of DM involvement I could get everytime I entered the game - even when just soloing my character. I didn't see a server with Vives level of verve and vim until the short lived but brilliant Border Kingdoms started up with a like minded team in 2012r. I know a bit about them because I tried to recruit their team for my Arnheim project while they tried to recruit me as a scripter and builder. Azador and I toured each other's projects. I turned them down because I thought my project was better. From a scripting standpoint it was (an unfair comparison I admit since they didn't have a scripter), but the lesson I learned is that a team of energetic DMs trumps clever scripting. Border Kingdoms blew up to be the last great server I have seen in NWN. I'm sure there are many better crafted servers, and some do have the amount of players that Border Kingdoms sustained that first summer and into fall. But they lack the vision, energy, and excitement that BK had. I don't mean any offense. This is just my opinion. But I think it worth considering because they had too many players, at times more than the server could accommodate. This is a problem that most admins wished they had back in 2012 let alone now. BK attracted players that hadn't played NWN in years. The popularity was too much for the team, and given the server's ambitions and early ability to deliver on it, I think expectations were too high. They should have had more DMs to keep up, but when NWN lacks the critical mass of builders and DMs scarcity becomes a problem, and in this case their ambitions were greater than the team could maintain.

 

While Arnheim was really satisfying, I regret not joining them. They could have benefitted from all the stuff I have developed. Most of it was a perfect fit because we both had the same ideas about what makes for fun in NWN. I still remember fondly when Azador (the team lead) wandered around through the forest of Falkswoud in Arnheim with me and had a holy **** moment with my crude 1st gen terrain scripts, and then just said... "OK. I'm sold."  We started negotiating about who would join who's project at that point, all doing this in Arnheim with blue jays, and foxes wandering about in the background. My point with Azador was that they needed what I already had, all the systems that enabled me to keep the world running as a solitary DM without lifting a finger beyond RPing NPCs and the expected story telling stuff. The players had the tools to interact with the world, teach other skills, languages, convert religions and do all that book keeping nonsense instead of bother DMs about it. He disagreed that that was important. And so neither of us budged. He wanted me to join his team. I wanted him to join with me. And neither of us compromised. In retrospect I think I was wrong. He had the resources to do something great, and so I should have helped them become even better and perhaps last long enough to get more DMs.

 

And thats what this is all about.

 

I think we should all help each other more. I've shared code with other people, and even packaged some projects for the vault when people requested the code. But thats not really what I mean.

 

I think we should each be more open to joining each other's projects and giving of our energy. And while I can do a PW solo I'm not really that excited any more about the idea (unless I got around to doing X2 Castle Amber as a short lived persistent module. I still think about this one and want to do it and no one else wants to so....) But anyway I know how seductive doing a PW solo can be and while I don't mean to rain on anyone else's parade, I would encourage you each to think twice about going it alone. Its certainly possible. Many have done it. But think about it first. I told my stupid little story above for this reason. Sometimes when you are too fixated on your own little thing, you miss out on being part of a much greater thing. If we each can let go of our egos, let go of needing full creative control, and dedicate ourselves to something else, maybe we'll create even better projects together than we each could have alone.

 

With this in mind I'm looking at Niv's work on a Silver Marches server. Its not one of the big projects out there so I'm not necessarily recruiting you to it. But for the time being I feel like creating some dungeon content for them because it looks like a cool project, and I like them. One thing I like about the project is that any player can actually build and submit content through their website. Niv put together a brilliant web interface. Really impressive work. Its a good fit for me because my commitment can be casual and I just don't have the time I used to have.

 

I might even be willing to help you out if you'd be willing to work with me. You'd have to be open to a light commitment. Maybe just DMing and a little building. Or maybe polishing a script or implementing a script system. Whatever. But the offer is out there.

 

And lastly I'll add a thought for people who managed to sit through this long winded and self-indulgent post:

would a formal match making service for builders, scripters and DMs work for this community? Its an interesting thought. I am thinking of getting over my aversion to Drupal and extending its calendar module on the Vault to work well for match making between players and DMs running events. But I wonder if we also could use another system for DMs, builders, scripters, and artists to offer their services freelance to other teams on a short term basis. I realize that many servers out there would need to loosen their concerns over all of us being complete crap at what we do, and that we'd probably need to be open to adapt to the server's style and quality level to make this work, but... wouldn't it be great if we all played more often with one another? We probably don't need a match making website for this. It seems that forum posts to the equivalent of "services offerred" and "services needed" would be enough. But whatever the technical aspects are, what does everyone else think of trying to do this more often? Or formalizing a place for it?

               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Rolo Kipp]

               

<preening just a bit...>

 

While I'm just a tad distracted|selfish|monomaniacal|stubborn to actually ever ask for help (except with the Vault. ummm, CTP. Er, Foundation, Community VFX Project, and a half dozen other things), I totally agree with this. I've been working on my own Gemworld concept for more than30 years and still don't quite have the engine I need to give it birth. I look everywhere for inspiration and sometimes I desperately need motivation, but it's my opus and the driving force behind my involvement with NwN.

 

The original concept called for a group of artists to get together and provide their own versions of fantasy, yet link them together into a *non*-homogenous whole. From the start I wanted to work *with* people (but have a real hard time working *for* people ;-/ )

 

I'm really in no danger of stopping anytime soon, but I really do wish my dear friends would coss-pollinate more. I think I've developed at least a small reputation for dropping what I'm doing to create or fix or improve some project other people brought to my attention. In fact, judging by the way Henesua is undoubtedly smirking, I probably jump on different projects a little *too* easily :-p Can't help it. I simply love to enable. 

 

The biggest problem with me is getting my attention and then me finding time. But I, like Henesua, am putting the offer out there. You need a bit of help, ask. And give something back in return. Not to *me* but to this community, to the rich reserves of resources and knowledge on the vault, to the people who share your hobby <obsession>. Pump up the energy, we all benefit.

 

On Henesua's last point, as he knows, I'm behind this all the way, too. I have really enjoyed dipping into other creations - TAD's Aenea, Henesua's Arnheim, LoW's Arbor Falls, all the servers I visited in the Player Appreciation Days a couple years ago. I'd love to be able to set up a round robin of play, perhaps with the Adventurer's Club on the Vault, or through them. But however, wouldn't it be great to schedule something where we all get to *play* once a week, and every few weeks our friends get to come see what's new in our own world?

 

And, at the risk of repeating myself in a different way and boring everyone, I wouldn't mind helping out on anyone. Just don't want the whole thing dumped on me :-P

 

Cuz I got things to do...

 

Does this post make me look fat?

 

<...in a fun-house mirror>

               
               

               
            

[Legacy_The Mad Poet]

               

One of the ideas I had a long while back might apply here. Instead of a match-making service like you suggest perhaps a community effort? I was inspired by the CCC for this. The idea of people of different skill sets coming together for a common cause. Essentially the idea works like this:

 

Builders, Admins, and others who need assistance working on one of their projects submit an application of sorts. They describe their project, and list say... 5 things they really need help on. It could be anything really. Then the community votes on which project to take up for the month, or perhaps 2 weeks. Anyone can volunteer to help based on what 5 things they list, and for that month the builder/admin/whatever can go to them and help each other out. I imagine mostly PW's would benefit the most, but I can't see why some single-player modules wouldn't also benefit. I think perhaps the only caveat would be that the project you submit shouldn't be brand new. It's not to discourage, but a great deal of projects fall out before they even get off the ground due to RL reasons, burn out, or whatever. I'd hate to have a group effort be put forth for an entire month only to see it dismissed a month later.

 

I think one of the major benefits of something like this is that there are no long-term commitments. No one has to feel obligated after the time period expires to do anything more. Plus it gives builders the benefit of working on things they may not have ever considered normally touching. Perhaps inspire a little bit.

 

Perhaps an example would be best. Here's an application from a PW Admin who is a single builder. They've had a server up for like 6 months but really need a hand with features they simply don't know how, or don't have the time to implement.

 

Name: Billy the Admin

Project Type: Persistent World

Name: Billy's Bodacious Bad Bag

Current Status: Beta PW

Time Worked On: 6 months

Hak Set: CEP 2.6 only

 

Description: Billy's Bodacious Bad Bag is an Action PW where players log in to challenge a scripted DM that dynamically challenges the group of players logged in with random dungeon areas, and random encounters. After facing a dungeon challenge the players can then rest their characters, sell their loot, and socialize before activating the system again. It provides nearly endless encounter and dungeon variety with a scripted auto-DM, but also allows real DM's to disable the auto-DM and have fun doing the same.

 

Requested Help

1: I need dungeon designers to create many new dungeon areas. They all need to be at least 16x16 areas, but can be of any tileset variety that you wish. I simply need more unique and interesting areas to add to add more variety for the players.

2: The Auto-DM I've scripted has a few bugs that I haven't been able to iron out. The encounters it creates in the area aren't having the variety that I want.

3: I could really use some new loot. Most of what I give out now is just garden variety NWN standard palette items. I would really like some unique items that fit the server.

4: I'm haven't figured out how to keep my players from resting in the dungeons. I use a simple bedroll system, but they can just sleep anywhere seemingly. It's annoying, and I can't figure out whats wrong.

5: The spawn system works great sometimes, but I've been thinking about changing it to a new system that doesn't use a server wide heartbeat. I could use some help figuring out what works best and implementing that.

 

Let's say the community picked this one. Maybe two or three builders who don't have any projects going on right now might want to make some neat 16x16 dungeons that fit the criteria. The admin said he wants them to be interesting, so the volunteer builder has a good amount of creative leeway. They say 'Hey, I'll build some areas. Let me know what your interested in specifically!'

 

Say some scripter says 'Auto-DM?' I've never thought of something like that. 'Hey, that Auto-DM thing sounds pretty neat. Let me take a look at the scripts and see what I can do to improve them and maybe iron out some of the bugs you have'.

 

Someone reads this that isn't a major builder or anything, but they know how to make weapons and loot. They could say 'Sure, what magic levels do you use? Is there any enchantments not allowed? I'll be glad to volunteer fifty or so quick items and descriptions'.

 

Example 2: This server has been up for quite a few years, and still has a number of players involved, but none of them are good at building, scripting, or anything really. A few people over the course of the week could update this server and really make the admin and these players VERY happy.

 

 

 

Name: Moriarty

Project Type: Persistent World

Name: Forgotten Realms - The Moonsea Region

Current Status: Active PW

Time Worked On: Module has been around for 6 years

Hak Set: CEP 2.1, single custom hak


Description: Forgotten Realms - The Moonsea Region has been an active server for 6 years now. I inherited this server from DM Sherlock several two years ago and we have a small but fairly active player base. We are a forgotten realms server obviously, and we're mostly just an old server looking for some new content.


Requested Help

1: I'd really like to update to the newest version of CEP, but every time I do I end up with strange errors with the scripting. I don't know what I'm doing wrong.

2: My players would really like to implement the ACP animations, but I don't have the faintest clue where to start with that.

3: A few of the areas of the server, especially my main city, are really old. They could use a fresh look.

4: I have a problem where new players are sometimes dropped to 0xp after the log in for the second time. No one knows why, and I'm completely lost. I have new characters always mark their XP when they first log off the server so that I can give them the amount back when they log back in as a DM. It's just such an inconvenience.

5: I found a set of heads that I'd like added to the server, as well as a few clothing options.

 

Updating to new CEP should be pretty easy, but they might have some custom palette items that need attention, and maybe they actually have altered 2da's and don't even know it. For some PW admins this is child's play, and could take them an hour to do and fix. 

 

ACP is a bit tricky, and some people REALLY have no idea what to do with phenotypes. There was a point in time I really though phenotypes were just a way to stretch the model to be fat. 

 

A builder interested could look at a city made with CEP standard exterior and find a way to use CEP's optional flagstone city to rebuild it in such a way to look new. Perhaps even shrink the city if it is just WAY too big with nothing in those areas. Perhaps even add a few special touches of their own.

 

Example 3: This is a single player module that needs only one or two things that are beyond the builders normal scope.

 

 

 

Name: JenniferRabbit

Project Type: SIngle Player Module

Name: Consciousness

Current Status: In development, approximately 3/4 of the way done.

Time Worked On: About 2 months now

Hak Set: hakless

Description: I've a pretty unique module that I've been making for a bit now and I'm getting close to completion. It's essentially a tale about a golem like Pinocchio that realizes its own individuality. The player is the golem, and is being hunted by the mage who created them because they are so unique. The player is on a quest to escape the mages advances, and meets companions and friends a long the way.


Requested Help

1: Right now the player character is still whatever race they choose to be. I'd really like to make the player character become a real golem. Have construct traits added to them when they first start the module. I've managed to add a skin for now, but I'd really like to implement the magic immunity a better way than what I've accomplished.

2: I'd like to disable the player from being a spellcaster class. They're playing an intelligent golem, and not a mage themselves.

3: I'm using basic henchman scripts from NWN, but I'd really like a few features added to the henchmen that the player finds along the way. Like maybe make them multiclass, or perhaps having the player able to goad them into changing classes.

 

JenniferRabbit here isn't asking for much, just a few touches that they don't know how to implement, or the best way to implement. Perhaps they don't know how to disable classes, or even if they could be told have difficulty. Would take most knowledged builders 5 mins to redo the 2da. Perhaps one module builder has a set of very awesome henchman scripts they made for their single-player module and offers to apply them for JenniferRabbit.

 

It's just an idea, but I think it could go well for a lot of people. Might also alleviate some of the boredom people might have with working on the same thing all the time. 

               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Who said that I]

               I totally agree with this. Seeing that I am currently in the process of buildig my own PW right now (alone) I believe that this is amazing since I am not a master scripter and would therefore fullu appreciate any help from the more experienced scripters to make my pw work more smoothly. '>
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_henesua]

               

Thats missing the point. There are already PWs that are active out in the world with players playing them that could use your help to make them better. That is what I was encouraging. To offer your own help rather than depend on everyone to help you.

 

If you want help, you most likely are going to have to offer some before anyone reciprocates.

 

... anyway, I will not be here to answer this for two weeks, so I don't want to leave this on such a harsh note and be unable to respond.

 

The point of this thread is to offer your help to others. People have been asking for help on their projects since the dawn of NWN. Most of these projects go nowhere because when you start out by yourself for the first time on a PW you have no idea how much you are taking on. Its perfectly valid to want to learn how to do all of this and thus build something on your own. But I don't see why anyone should help a solo project like this when there are more exciting projects out there. Why are they more exciting? Because people are already playing them. And after you have paid your dues on a project and learn how to do everything you would need to know to work on your own, you could probably build a PW on your own fairly easily. I had my second PW up and running in 3 months because I scoped it just right and knew what I was doing at that point. The third PW is another story because I had planned on having the full team stick it out, and found myself in the end holding the bag of someone else's project.

 

Again:

 

The point of all of this was to suggest builders offer their help to active projects. I think Poet had some great ideas in this regard as well with monthly actions. I think that services offered threads in this subforum would work well. And maybe PWs could start posting help wanted to the same subforum and we'd start to get a bit of an exchange going out in the open. Currently much of this happens quietly on the sidelines.

               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Shadooow]

               

In the spirit of the thread I offer help with integrating CPP into any PW if needed. Script merging, 2da merging, features usage.

 

I was helping with this task recently on one low magic world and there was some issues raised which I helped to fix or explain why is that happening.

               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Grani]

               

Alright, then.

 

There are numerous much better scripters in the community, but if I can help anyone with anything, it'd be scripting. I've scripted things like player housing system, custom item crafting system, random quests, so I think I know enough about it to assist beginners and almost-beginners, whether it's about practical help with fixing and writing scripts or explaining the concepts and how things work. '>

 

Nowadays, I'm more active on the NWVault IRC than on the forums, but I check it often, so you can feel free to PM me and I'll do everything in my power to help you.

 

That's the least I can do, but I want to do it, since I like the idea of the community members helping each other.

               
               

               
            

[Legacy_kalbaern]

               

I myself have always helped others, as time allows and my skill set dictated. Over the years now, that's also meant I can help with more an more "things" as that skill sett has grown through the help of others here both past and present. I see it as both a form of "paying it back" as well as "paying it forward". I don't however agree that we should only assist those with an established PW and player base. Sure, I've lost track of the numbers (and names) of folks wanting to start their own PW or even just make a stand alone adventure, that have given up after seeing all that needs done and that I've dedicated significant amounts of my time to help only to see the project abandoned. I however have never seen it as a waste of my time though and I'll explain why.

 

When I choose to help, it often falls into two categories for me.

 

Category 1

The first category I refer internally to as, "I got this". The help required is something I've done for my own PW or others and at worst, after some copy/pasting and a few custom edits ... "voila!" ... help delivered. Though this category is by far what I do most, it actually accounts for less time in the long run than the next category.

 

Since the time spent on this category is generally minimal, it doesn't bother me much if the project is later dropped.

 

Category 2

The second category I refer to internally as "Ooooo, I like that idea". Help is offered with these type of problems generally because they fall within my current skill set and they are new/unique ideas that while I've not tried myself, I know "how" to go ahead and do it. This type of help tends to be a lot more time consuming as now I'm scripting/building/merging stuff that I have no copy/paste/edit options for. However, the fact that the "idea" appealed to me is enough to justify the time invested. 99% of the time, while its not "something" I have done or used myself, the help request gave me the idea to borrow or adapt the request for my own works.

 

Even if the project gets abandoned, the general "idea" of the request will likely live on in my own incarnation at a later date.

 

There are times when I decline or outright refuse to help others still. Most often, its just because I lack the skills at present to do so. On rare occasions though, I do withhold assistance merely because the individual in the past has themselves not been willing to "share" their own stuff. Since I share most of my work freely, no strings, no requirement of credit even, I expect that those I assist do the same.

 

I admit, over the years, there have been times I've felt my time had been wasted, especially when it was lent to a new project that after only a short period is abandoned. I realize nowadays that that's simply a risk and akin to "loaning" a relative or friend some money ... knowing full well it'll most likely never be repaid. '> Sometimes, it does get repaid though. Sometimes, those I've helped have dropped their own projects, but taken what they've learned with them to another project or active PW and contributed there instead. A couple of folks I've helped over the years have even revived or taken over PWs on the verge of extinction and normally couldn't have done so without much of that initial "help" in the past. So limiting assistance to only those projects that are "live" and populated seems a little shortsighted to me. '>  You never know where those asking for help today will be tomorrow.

 

On the subject of helping existing PWs, while I'm game, I don't expect many would want new areas or ideas implemented by persons not already a part of their own community and preferably already vetted by the PW.  For a start, many PWs, my own included, have their own guidelines for submissions and restrictions on what can be used and how. PWs with a specific theme and history often require that areas fit the theme with little room for divergence. It takes time to double check submissions to ensure things were done correctly and to ensure everything is above board. While I have many areas in my own PW that were created by others, outside of my small dedicated builders group, other submissions have often caused issues when added.

 

I'm personally pretty anal about many things when it comes to building. My top priority is resource management. Often, "outside builders" have loaded submissions down with NPCs, custom placeables, items and scripts that are redundant, at least in my own eyes. Adhering to my own requirements of non-useable placeables always being set as PLOT and STATIC seems to be an issue too. By the time I've "fixed" many submissions, I could've added three times that number of new things myself. Not always, but it happens enough that I almost dread looking over a new submission most days.

 

Anyhow, just my own "food for thought" here.

               
               

               
            

[Legacy_The Mad Poet]

               

I agree that individuals should absolutely help out whenever they can, and with whatever they like. My idea of *restrictions* was meant more for as a group effort. Say for example five or six volunteers decide to donate their time for a month I'd like to think it would be better for that group to work with something that is, without trying to sound mean about this, worth the groups time and effort. Someone who has downloaded a base module from the vault and says 'Help me build a FR PW' probably needs a lot more of an idea of what they actually want to do, and where they are going with the whole project, before asking for such a collective effort from volunteers. You know.. have a basic idea already. Have the setting details established. Have a working model. Not have a bunch of people build something *for* you.

 

Gosh I hope that didn't sound mean.

 

But of course anyone with the moxy to give a hand to anyone please do so! I try to reply to help requests when I can to, like you said kalbaern, 'Pay it forward'.

               
               

               
            

[Legacy_JediMindTrix]

               

Maybe I'm missing the point, maybe I'm not. I'm not sure what help I can be, so I'll leave these here:

 

jmt_headswitch

jmt_headrevert

 

Those scripts I wrote originally for Prisoner's of the Mist, but they languished and were never used. They were to be hooked into a rest menu option and would allow the player to cycle through CEP 2.4's available hooded head models and then back to their original head model. I commented the ever-loving hell out of them, and they could potentially teach a newcomer to scripting how some aspects of NWScript work.

 

Hope that helps, someone, somewhere.

 

 

EDIT: They should be compatible with 2.61, given it's backwards compatibility.

               
               

               
            

[Legacy_henesua]

               

If you accept the assertion that experience is by definition self-centered, I don't think my post in which I recount my own experience should canonically define the ideas which we share together on this subject. Although the point I was driving toward was to encourage more collaborations in the community, no one can dispute that there are other ways to help one another. Freely sharing the fruit of our labors, as you have done, JediMindTrix, is a great way to do this, and more of this is to be encouraged.

 

As far as PWs go however, I stand by my assertion that talented soloists such as myself should be more willing to work in support roles than we currently are. And even more so than this I think newcomers should work with others on projects at least to gain some skills and knowledge prior to embarking on their own visions.

 

Why do I make these assertions?

(1) The more social we are with one another the stronger the connections in the community become, and thus the stronger the community.

(2) Teams can accomplish more tasks than individuals can.

 

Anyway, those are my ideas. I don't think restating them over and over is all that interesting. I'd like to hear more what others think in order to round out these perspectives.

               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Mavrixio]

               I totally agree... I personally welcome anyone that want to help in the development of Sinfar. We are 20+ builders but we have a system in place for much more, there an infinite number of things that can be created and our Skype group will just be more crazy.

I also offer to host a side world with all Sinfar fixes, web tools and scripting systems (in a shared way, so that you also get fixes)... for people that want a more specific world, like with their own rules.

The point is that instead of working on systems that have been done to death: persistence, spawn, customization, XP, loot, RP tools, ...(the list is very very long), you can focus on the deepness of your areas, NPC, story... and instead of bashing your head on the generic AI just to try to make your Mobs react in an acceptable delay, you can focus on unique quests or a unique AI for a Boss.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_The Mad Poet]

               

Dear Lord, 20 builders? How do you keep yourselves from acting like the chickens from Zelda whenever Link hits one?

 

Though I also think the point is to have people help developers with projects that *need* help, and not recruit for existing servers with such an already well established staff. Though I will say that working with an experienced staff like Sinfar would be a good way for a great deal of people to learn some tips and tricks of the trade. Both would benefit from that.

               
               

               
            

[Legacy_JediMindTrix]

               

I don't they were recruiting, they've got 20+ builders '> That seemed like an offer to teach through experience or use their base in a PW (and even host it). Sinfar has an enormous amount of players and if they hosted a server for someone, that server would be likely to get a ton of exposure.

               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Terrorble]

               

Henusa, you're not wrong.  And you descriptively capture me rather well here.

 

But anyway I know how seductive doing a PW solo can be and while I don't mean to rain on anyone else's parade, I would encourage you each to think twice about going it alone. Its certainly possible. Many have done it. But think about it first. I told my stupid little story above for this reason. Sometimes when you are too fixated on your own little thing, you miss out on being part of a much greater thing. If we each can let go of our egos, let go of needing full creative control, and dedicate ourselves to something else, maybe we'll create even better projects together than we each could have alone.

 

I've been pounding away at a module off and on for about four years.  It's setup like a PW, but has a story you progress through.  In one sense, I bit off too much and will never finish it to my liking.  In another, I was honest with myself from the beginning that I would only work on it while I enjoyed doing it, and my success would not be gauged by who played it.  (though, I was fairly disheartened when GameSpy dropped NWN since I had hopes to host it so a few people might drop in)

 

I have been approached about collaborating before, and like you, I maintained a white-knuckled grip on what I wanted to do.  So I do it while I enjoy it and progress is slow ( dang career that sucks my energies and time into its endlessly ravenous gut).  But I have thought many times that  I am missing out on being a part of something bigger/better.

 

Your post has caused me to reconsider what I would give up to be a part of something bigger.