henesua wrote...
I agree with you Monk. The one advantage of writing a new utility would be to enable any server to run it. Run on any OS. Any CPU etc... But NWNX has much more functionality that we can take advantage of as well so we might as well just increase interest in it, and keep those wheels turning.
Should think in terms of synergy, moving it so the separate projects of NWN work together to make a larger system, but each aspect has it's own team or project.
I'll try to list out the main areas ( which I know of ), but remember no matter what happens, getting things to work together is like herding cats.
1. NWNx is server only, modding the server process, most servers are on PC or Linux, as a Mac user this leaves us out, but we have NO TOOLSET, so we just don't put up servers without a Linux or PC system. Also Linux is better for servers, while there are those that use it as a desktop, the main way Linux is used is as a server hosting websites, handling email, or various other things. The potential features and fixes this adds are worthwhile to any PW, Lan Game, etc but the cost of figuring out how to get it running limit it to more serious folks ( and even using the server to host the game, instead of the DM client is a technical chore for some ). The client systems will work with this regardless.
I would not want to have any other system competing with this projects targeted market, the use of plugins, and the open nature of this project means you can add whatever ideas you want to it, or fork it for your own purposes. I have always supported NWNx for this type of thing. Besides the expertise to do this well is with a small group of people, and they should be an extended member of this team. ( besides the things skywing has done for NWN2, if they can be back ported to NWN1 would address numerous long standing issues. )
2. Client modifications should ideally be optional or for PW's whose players all agree before hand to all get the mod, requiring them means you have to install such, and can only be required by specific servers, and eliminate those using Mac's, perhaps some using Linux. Ideally they add features, make things easier, which can be done manually by the players or just result in a less robust experience if they choose to abstain. Since NWNCX is the main mod by Virusman, does not modify the exe file ( it can but that is optional, it uses microsofts detours ), and enables plugins, it should end up an open system as well. Peachykeens graphic shaders should I am hoping eventually come out as a NWNCX plugin, as well as other content creators.
3. Custom content Haks and such, should consider the CEP, project Q, or something more granular - but those projects should be respected regardless. Requiring haks and such is a major issue for the engine, and it creates the same problems which NWN2 had of players needing to figure out where to get the files, players having the wrong version of the files causing PW lag/crashes, exploits in bics which are more client side, or PW admins installing files which change how the base game works without the end user knowing how to undo them. These can cause great havoc, and CEP is a very good solution for these issues, it was only with a autodownloader that more customized sets of resources can be put into use, also most PW admins like the single massive hak since it's easier to make sure players have that.
4. Content management solutions - These start getting tricky.
- For the server: ie Ruby/Python to create the BIC file or translate it, this is fine but you'd need NWNx to launch it on the server, or tie it into mysql, or some such so it's truly integrated with player activity.
- For the player: My launcher should be able to install content when you hit play ( an external app whose entire reason to launch is to allow me to vett that players resources, fix things, then let them into the game ), but this is optional. The fallback should be clear instructions, perhaps other tools to install, and methods to block players who have the wrong content ( changing the hak names ). )
- For Builders: A system to integrate CVS, subversion, etc, to assemble your PW is pretty cool. ( Khaladine did this, and I know elven has some great systems to support this ( nwnlib i think it's called ) which moves various content into more text based form which is easier for a CVS to handle. I am also looking at these problems.
( Forgive me I know more about NWN2 than NWN1, but then a lot of what is being discussed, was actually discussed in other threads or projects for NWN2, we actually had a lobby server which was running for a long while run by JuliaM, and I was moderator for the PW admin roundtable, where the NWN2 PW admins worked together with obsidian to note exploits, bugs and issues which we either resolved via NWNx, via patches, or via workarounds, and resulted in Obsidian hiring Grinning fool to do the 1.23 autoupdater ( and a lot of other features he was able to sneak in, the 1.23 has a lot of his features ). For the most part, the issues we dealt with are not NWN2 specific, the main difference being all PW's had to use client side custom content. )
Remember the biggest barrier to this is if the player has to do something. If you have to make them install something, it's best to find something they are doing for other reasons, or which they already are looking for since it's using terms they are used to in other games. It is preferred to do it on the server, via custom program, NWNx.
End users are driven solely by personal perceived benefit. ( For example, even though a program might in reality reduce crashing by 30%, the end user cannot perceive this, and thus will only get this when facing a repeated crash just for this one purpose, they just can't compare with and without. ) The community must be educated and sold by features that matter to them, and objections must be addressed or your project will just not get used except by a minority. ( Even then some portion will avoid it based on principal, or wanting things to be how they understood them at an earlier time even if the situation has changed to make their objections obsolete. )
An issue like gamespy is also a good opening, it can get players to get beyond installing exe's and dll's by a guy named
Virusman or perhaps choose to install my launcher, but this always going to be a minority, and what I am doing is going to face heavy resistance ( i even originally named it "Never worker" since most comments were that it would "Never Work", now it will just "Never Launch"). Many players would prefer to install a hak or use a web site than risk code written by an unknown person which can gum up their entire system. Even the CEP has wide acceptance, but also is an issue of contention when a PW's players vote on accepting it, generally the rule here is "less is more" for the player, even if it means PW admins have to jump thru hoops. ( and even they act like players )
Not impossible of course, but you have to have perceived benefits which outweigh the players fears, just to get your product tried, and it also has to work as is out of the box without causing stress. Using existing projects whenever possible, improving them instead of recreating them, or having your projects support those existing projects instead of competing with them, this bypasses a lot of the selling needed, and and helps your own project be adopted easier ( not even counting the reduced output caused by deciding to spend time reinventing the wheel ).
Not trying to influence one way or the other, but any project needs to think thru how it's going to be sold/adopted, who it's targeting, and what objections are going to be created, and the advantages created by each added requirement ( hurdle ), and how it fits into the larger community.
Modifié par painofdungeoneternal, 18 février 2013 - 10:37 .
