Author Topic: Soliciting DM Feedback on a Spawn Tracking System  (Read 1345 times)

Legacy_Rolo Kipp

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Soliciting DM Feedback on a Spawn Tracking System
« Reply #15 on: November 06, 2012, 04:58:07 pm »


               <keeping an eye...>

I also see application for tracking unique NPCs (and others) in the whole hyper-mod concept. It's would be a major part of allowing "left-over" content from an adventure to be integrated into a larger game-space.

*My* coupla coppers ;-)

<...on the main chance>
               
               

               
            

Legacy_SHOVA

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Soliciting DM Feedback on a Spawn Tracking System
« Reply #16 on: November 06, 2012, 06:46:36 pm »


               Henesua,
the snag, of personal reputation.. I have run into it before when the PC respawns, and factions are reset.
I have yet to find a way to adjust reputation for the PC in re-guard to custom factions. For some strange reason, Bio- thought we would only need 4 factions.

From what I have been able to gather, is it is stored locally which is why its a major undertaking to work around it. I suggest storing the faction data on a custom skin for the said NPC.

As far as making this customizable, the documentation is going to have to be pretty good, as your dealling with advanced NPC handling.
               
               

               


                     Modifié par SHOVA, 06 novembre 2012 - 06:49 .
                     
                  


            

Legacy_ehye_khandee

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Soliciting DM Feedback on a Spawn Tracking System
« Reply #17 on: November 07, 2012, 12:25:35 am »


               

henesua wrote...

Ehye, I'm asking for feedback on what I am doing, not to be told to stop.

Regarding your comments about making aspects of this optional, yes, I agree. I addressed this yesterday in the thread, and implemented it. This will enable easy adjustment of the system should it be more trouble than it is worth.

With regards to seeking wide adoption etc... you misunderstand my purpose. While I do enjoy sharing my work, I develop it to use it, not for the download count. Sharing is also fun and healthy for the community. Hoping for and encouraging more of it should be the community ethic.


If you READ it, you'd know it WAS a suggestion on HOW  -   make such restaints on a DM OPTIONAL to make your system more universally usable. DMs run things as it happens in NWN, what a group of PLAYERS do to what the BUILDER had in mind will often be made to work or not work by the skill of the DMing. This goes for NWN as well as PNP. This is all the same game underneath it all and the DM client is what makes this computer game special.

Be well. Game on.
GM_ODA
               
               

               
            

Legacy_henesua

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Soliciting DM Feedback on a Spawn Tracking System
« Reply #18 on: November 07, 2012, 02:45:32 am »


               Ehye, not interested in arguing with you. We've already been through this.
               
               

               
            

Legacy_henesua

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Soliciting DM Feedback on a Spawn Tracking System
« Reply #19 on: November 07, 2012, 05:33:34 am »


               I'm getting feedback from other sources as well. A bit exhausted after hashing this over and over and dealing with design of the organization for the data, but I think I may have something more substantial in a few days.

Here's a cut and paste of another exchange I am having about this.

An old friend from Vives asked....
- Could you provide two scenarios, one with unique creatures and one without, to show the difference between the two and the purpose of having this system in place?


Lets try it this way. A Monk PC has discovered that the NPC Master (unique NPC) of their monastery was using other monks irresponsibly to further a cause that the PC opposes. So the player tells a DM that they want to take over control of the monastery. The DM helps facilitate a player driven event in which the PC defeats the NPC master. Due to the conflict a number of the rank and file (generics of a type) leave and a number stay (based on the PC monk's reputation in the monastery), but the PC is now in control of the monastery. The PC now has some of the rank and file to draw upon should they be needed, and the former master has been removed as a member of the monastery. If the former master NPC survives it could remain a member of the other nefarious group it was a member of. Perhaps this other group now has a population of rank and file monks as well that DMs can use to harass the now PC run monastery.

Granted I don't have the ability to enable such to happen yet. But this system of data tracking is critical in implementing it. While the DM would be needed to help the transfer of leadership. Once the PC is in control, they would have the monastery's resources at their command, and not need a DM to exercise this power. The DM could move on to other things, and let the module track reputation, and such at the monastery perhaps periodically adjusting how many loyal rank and file NPCs remain, and providing other feedback to the PC to indicate their success or lack thereof in running it.


===

To those in the know, this should look a little like what Border Kingdoms was doing, but the intention is not to rely on DMs for everything and thereby, hopefully, limit DM burnout. I would think that anyone following my project closely would have realized that I have been aiming for something similar as well - as my background system puts PCs into different groups that are in conflict with one another (the world has a civilized versus wild conflict for example).

Well now that Border Kingdoms is gone, rather than keeping my module private for session based play, I am trying to get my module ready to fill the same niche. And I learned a bit from playing on that server and seeing how their henchman system worked. I am borrowing that and seeking to apply it here with this population management and unique NPC management. In case anyone is wondering how I intend to use all of this.

Might as well let the cat out of the bag even though I am far from being able to release this. After all this talk I am excited by what I am finally seeing as possible.

And with that said... I need a break. Been a long day and my head hurts.
               
               

               


                     Modifié par henesua, 07 novembre 2012 - 05:34 .
                     
                  


            

Legacy_ehye_khandee

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Soliciting DM Feedback on a Spawn Tracking System
« Reply #20 on: November 07, 2012, 05:53:40 am »


               Ignore this if you think it an arguement (in error). No argument here, but I don't see where the point I was making was treated with anything but dismissal. If I missed the "Oh, OK, we'll make that an option" somewhere feel free to quote and bold it in your reply to this.

Be well. Game on.
GM_ODA
               
               

               
            

Legacy_henesua

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Soliciting DM Feedback on a Spawn Tracking System
« Reply #21 on: November 07, 2012, 06:39:34 am »


               One example early on

henesua wrote...

Considering the concerns about limitations on DMs which I am also sensitive to, for now I am going to leave in the ability to tweak this. the NESS system will have a different hook and initialization process when it creates the creature, and the spawn event which tracks creature spawning will be configurable so that DM spawns can be treated differently, and perhaps I could incorporate different levels of DM permissions. Master DMs would have no limitations.


Similar comment made later, although shorter, in direct response to you in which I mentioned that I had coded this flexibility into the system while on my commute and had it working.

If you missed these comments fine. No hard feelings. And I appologize for taking your stance as combative. I figured that my agreeing with you and explaining how I had taken such concerns on board would be enough to move on. That you missed this hadn't occurred to me as I am very deep into this and as a non-programmer with a completely different kind of set of professional skills - over my head. Sorry for being so close to the task at hand to have neglected taking a step back and realizing that you missed my comments. Admittedly they buk was not in direct response to you.

Anyway, moving on. Gotta figure out how to design my data to work for this... but maybe tomorrow. Head hurts. Just... tweaking a few more lines of code... before i step away. '<img'>
               
               

               
            

Legacy_SHOVA

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Soliciting DM Feedback on a Spawn Tracking System
« Reply #22 on: November 07, 2012, 02:17:03 pm »


               Henesua,
How will reputation change in the database you are making? Will it change via DM widget? Actual conversation with NPC? Or have you come up with some alternative?

I ask this because I see a unique, and possibly unintended use for your system.
Merchant implementation in NWN has always bothered me. While the APPRAISE skill check does work, after a few levels and skill dumps it is a joke. Now with your system in play, the merchant could adjust the price of the store based on Appraise, and what data has been added to the database. Once the PC sees the prices, they could well kill the merchant, have their reputation for killing merchants with outrageous prices added, and then when a new NPC merchant spawns in a day or to, and using the data, give the PC Walmart low prices.
               
               

               
            

Legacy_henesua

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Soliciting DM Feedback on a Spawn Tracking System
« Reply #23 on: November 07, 2012, 02:31:27 pm »


               Regarding reputation - admittedly I have not spent a lot of time digging into this yet.

I am using PRR so reputation related to social interaction, renown etc... is persistent and affects prices.

However my concern is about the personal reputation system built into the game and what happens to it when the NPC is committed to the DB. I've still not tested this, and don't know what is in store for me. It could be that this snag prevents me from committing NPCs to the DB. In any case, I hope to have this figured out this week.
               
               

               


                     Modifié par henesua, 07 novembre 2012 - 02:32 .
                     
                  


            

Legacy_SHOVA

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Soliciting DM Feedback on a Spawn Tracking System
« Reply #24 on: November 13, 2012, 02:02:03 pm »


               Henesua, you have had almost a week now! What have you found out about reputation? Please don't give up on this system, It sound too useful.
               
               

               
            

Legacy_henesua

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Soliciting DM Feedback on a Spawn Tracking System
« Reply #25 on: November 13, 2012, 05:04:19 pm »


               Sorry, I was sidetracked by family stuff, and then I decided to take a step back, do a little area building, clean up my swamp terrain scripts, and coordinate some work on some new summons that Frimble is helping me with.

I've since explored the ins and outs of factions, and am sketching out how I can organize my factions to work well with a system like this. It will be an intersection of AI, Faction, and this data tracking which hooks into group membership for NPCs and PCs.

Its a significant project, and will take some time. As far as testing out whether reputation is saved I'll post my findings when I get them. That could be a good project to tackle this upcoming weekend.
               
               

               
            

Legacy_QlippothVI

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Soliciting DM Feedback on a Spawn Tracking System
« Reply #26 on: December 07, 2012, 07:43:43 am »


               If you need any computer resources I have a machine on my Comcast internet (I'm in Berkeley) if you want to run a server or use NWNX to attach to my mySQL db... You could build a Linux VM, or I have a WinXP VM I use for NWN server play. Not 24/7 but close enough for part time project work. I hope to have a dedicated machine for this stuff early next year.