Author Topic: The Expansion is Stupid  (Read 978 times)

Legacy_Eternal Phoenix

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The Expansion is Stupid
« on: January 21, 2011, 03:24:28 pm »


               And when I mean that, I mean I see how the scripting is pretty good, how henchmen AI has been improved and I see how areas look pretty good but the whole story is stupid, unmemorable and poor. In the Interlude, all the dungeons you explore are full of traps that would kill nearly every character below LV 10 ( I'm playing as my character from the OC), many enemies cast confusion and daze on you. There are hardly any merchants. Then in Chapter II - it's the same. Was the campaign even designed for  LV 1 - 13 characters? Even in Chapter I when I played as a LV 1 character just to test it - traps and enemies were everywhere and they were very powerful. In Chapter II when you enter the temple, I could've sworn some enemies had just been planted there without any thought of what they do.

What a terrible expansion, I'm glad I'm done with it. Hordes of the Underdark seems to follow the same route though where you have a lack of merchants.

Still, Darkness over Daggerford seems pretty good (from the short time I have spent playing it) and probably the best of the expansions if you wish to call it that.

Edit:

Just finished the expansion. The ending was good but that was it.
               
               

               


                     Modifié par Elton John is dead, 21 janvier 2011 - 05:23 .
                     
                  


            

Legacy_HipMaestro

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The Expansion is Stupid
« Reply #1 on: January 22, 2011, 02:16:27 am »


               Well, just for the record, SoU is my least favorite of the campaigns but for none of the reasons which you have mentioned.  However, to remark a bit on your own comments for a sec...

Starting with anything other than a level 1 character will be terribly boring since the enemies are very easy except for the act 1 bosses with encounters that have been nerfed with uber plot items for those who are less combat-oriented.

Not enough merchants?  You serious?  There are at least 5 in act 1, 2 in the brief interlude and 2 in act 3.  That's nine in a campaign that will get to a grand total of level 11-13.  I never felt compromised merchant-wise in this or any of the campaigns and not sure what it is exactly why you need more merchants. HotU is another issue so I will refrain from commenting about it, merchant availability-wise, in an SoU-only forum.

As far as traps are concerned, there are 2 henchmen that will disarm them with minimum effort, one by disarm skill and the other via Find Traps.  If you are in the habit of rushing through dungeons, then yes, you will suffer, but no differently than any other module I've played. Actually the traps are rather low level and can be easily disarmed and even recovered by a low-level rogue, if you choose to play one.  I guess my advice is to just slow down a bit and kite small groups away from larger ones by taking advantage of their perception range. Again, this doesn't apply specifically to SoU but helps manage combat effectiveness just as well.

Even though this isn't my fav, I am still glad to have had the opportunity to play-through with several different class/race combos.  Of course, it is the designed precursor to HotU, level-wise and story-wise so is best to use a character from this expansion than the OC which begins a bit too high (level 16-18) for a good challenge in the SoU sequel.

It's a pity you didn't enjoy the expansion because the last act was one of the best I've played and contained loads of scripting and dialog that is a valuable resource for any novice builder.  But to each his own, especially where NWN gaming is concerned.  SoU is the fav of the 3 campaigns for many, many gamers.

Adios, amigo!'<img'>
               
               

               
            

Legacy_jmlzemaggo

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The Expansion is Stupid
« Reply #2 on: January 22, 2011, 08:19:07 am »


               SoU... A dream cannot be perfect once it's for real.
But stupid? I don't think so. Not to mention it's not fair for those who wrote it. Writing is better than thinking of writing. And it's different. Like two different worlds.

You'll find some amazing community modules to feed your soul, I'm sure.
Each one is own.
Mine was SoU at a time.

If there is one thing I respect it's people with an opinion, and you surely have one, Elton John is dead.
And willing to express it is like the cherry on the cake.
There is probably one of my favourite english expression: Speak your mind.
I'm not sure a native english speaker can actually see the true beauty of it. Two opposite words being put together.
Now you're right, Elton John is dead, 'shout your mind' could be even better. '<img'>
               
               

               


                     Modifié par jmlzemaggo, 22 janvier 2011 - 08:38 .
                     
                  


            

Legacy_Eternal Phoenix

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The Expansion is Stupid
« Reply #3 on: January 22, 2011, 02:58:39 pm »


               

HipMaestro wrote...

Well, just for the record, SoU is my least favorite of the campaigns but for none of the reasons which you have mentioned.  However, to remark a bit on your own comments for a sec...

Starting with anything other than a level 1 character will be terribly boring since the enemies are very easy except for the act 1 bosses with encounters that have been nerfed with uber plot items for those who are less combat-oriented.

Not enough merchants?  You serious?  There are at least 5 in act 1, 2 in the brief interlude and 2 in act 3.  That's nine in a campaign that will get to a grand total of level 11-13.  I never felt compromised merchant-wise in this or any of the campaigns and not sure what it is exactly why you need more merchants. HotU is another issue so I will refrain from commenting about it, merchant availability-wise, in an SoU-only forum.

As far as traps are concerned, there are 2 henchmen that will disarm them with minimum effort, one by disarm skill and the other via Find Traps.  If you are in the habit of rushing through dungeons, then yes, you will suffer, but no differently than any other module I've played. Actually the traps are rather low level and can be easily disarmed and even recovered by a low-level rogue, if you choose to play one.  I guess my advice is to just slow down a bit and kite small groups away from larger ones by taking advantage of their perception range. Again, this doesn't apply specifically to SoU but helps manage combat effectiveness just as well.

Even though this isn't my fav, I am still glad to have had the opportunity to play-through with several different class/race combos.  Of course, it is the designed precursor to HotU, level-wise and story-wise so is best to use a character from this expansion than the OC which begins a bit too high (level 16-18) for a good challenge in the SoU sequel.

It's a pity you didn't enjoy the expansion because the last act was one of the best I've played and contained loads of scripting and dialog that is a valuable resource for any novice builder.  But to each his own, especially where NWN gaming is concerned.  SoU is the fav of the 3 campaigns for many, many gamers.

Adios, amigo!'<img'>


There are three in Chapter I if I recall. Two in the village and one in the forest. The interlude contains only two merchants, the halfing's reaction to me was unfavorable and she was charging the highest healing potions at 700 gold each and the heal potion at 4000 gold. Same goes for the lizard guy. As a fighter, I leveled up with skills I thought would be useful for a fighter, not appraise or craft. In the NWN campaign, some merchants have a favorable reaction to me.

Chapter II had only two merchants - the lizard guy and the shadow servant who didn't sell anything useful. The ending acts for Chapter II were filled with Skeleton Devourers who were just insanely annoying.

jmlzemaggo wrote...


SoU... A dream cannot be perfect once it's for real.
But stupid? I don't think so. Not to mention it's not fair for those who wrote it. Writing is better than thinking of writing. And it's different. Like two different worlds.

You'll find some amazing community modules to feed your soul, I'm sure.
Each one is own.
Mine was SoU at a time.

If there is one thing I respect it's people with an opinion, and you surely have one, Elton John is dead.
And willing to express it is like the cherry on the cake.
There is probably one of my favourite english expression: Speak your mind.
I'm not sure a native english speaker can actually see the true beauty of it. Two opposite words being put together.
Now you're right, Elton John is dead, 'shout your mind' could be even better. [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/wink.png[/smilie]


Darkness over Daggerford made by Ossian Studios and backed by Bioware is pretty good. I wouldn't consider it a community module and it actually beats the expansions for NWN. It's how NWN should have been.
               
               

               


                     Modifié par Elton John is dead, 22 janvier 2011 - 03:01 .
                     
                  


            

Legacy_jmlzemaggo

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The Expansion is Stupid
« Reply #4 on: January 22, 2011, 04:36:37 pm »


               

Elton John is dead wrote...
It's how NWN should have been.

Wrong.
It's how NWN is. Do you know how many community modules are waiting for you at the Vault?
               
               

               
            

Legacy_Eternal Phoenix

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The Expansion is Stupid
« Reply #5 on: January 22, 2011, 05:07:08 pm »


               No and I don't care. They're made by fans not Bioware and each are different from NWN's campaign. One I did play was called Good Vs Evil III which had no story but had you fighting in wars and building your army. That doesn't sound like NWN to me. It's just been built with the fantastic aurora toolset.
               
               

               


                     Modifié par Elton John is dead, 23 janvier 2011 - 11:18 .
                     
                  


            

Legacy_Spartansfan8888

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The Expansion is Stupid
« Reply #6 on: January 22, 2011, 06:46:51 pm »


               SoU is tough if you don't play as a character that can be a tank.  There is a mod to it though that allows you to bring along the paladin girl.  That made it a lot easier for me as an arcane archer to not have enemies surrounding me at all times.
               
               

               
            

Legacy_jmlzemaggo

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The Expansion is Stupid
« Reply #7 on: January 22, 2011, 07:29:24 pm »


               I won't discuss the tech side of NWN. I could make like anyone else a fine game engine like the aurora IF I was ever interested in working in the computer business.
Which I'm not.
Nothing surprising in it, it's a 1+1 situation.
Every one of us is the best at what he does best for a living.
I'm much more impressed by amateurs spending years of their life to create stories for fun and sharing.
I know plenty of NWN community modules which are not about fighting only.
But feelings... and a bit of fighting.
Maybe there is one for you there. Not you only. Your only call.
You can live without it, that's for sure.
               
               

               


                     Modifié par jmlzemaggo, 22 janvier 2011 - 08:02 .
                     
                  


            

Legacy_HipMaestro

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« Reply #8 on: January 22, 2011, 08:33:39 pm »


               RE: Merchant Availability in SoU

Elton John is dead wrote...
There are three in Chapter I if I recall. Two in the village and one in the forest. The interlude contains only two merchants, the halfing's reaction to me was unfavorable and she was charging the highest healing potions at 700 gold each and the heal potion at 4000 gold. Same goes for the lizard guy. As a fighter, I leveled up with skills I thought would be useful for a fighter, not appraise or craft. In the NWN campaign, some merchants have a favorable reaction to me.

Farghan the Herbalist, Hilltop West
Fiona the Smith, Hilltop West
Szaren the Red Wizard, Hilltop West (after quest complete)
Torias the Black Market Halfling, Halfing Camp Hilltop East
The Hermit, High Forest (also recharges items for a fee)

That makes five.  Considering I haven't played SoU in about a year even I am surprised the grey matter is functioning well enough to remember such trivia.

I believe you have located the other 4 in the balance of the campaign

Yes, SoU, just like the OC and HotU, uses the Appraise skill to adjust buy/sell prices.  SoU is more realistic about loot, IMO, in that gold is not simply spread out all over creation.  Economics is a more recognizable commodity in SoU than either the OC or HotU.  SoU is more typical of a module that doesn't simply remove the economic facet of the game by spawning ridiculous amounts of loot.  I mean, why not just spawn 100K gold on the PC during creation? It would reduce the needless tedium of clicking on every blasted container in the area and prevent rampant carpal tunnel  in the process. The more realistic economic aspect of SoU is very effectively designed, in my estimation.

So what, exactly, would you have preferred to encounter more merchants for? Better bargains? More dialogs? Trigger more subquests? I guess I am confused.

You do know how to influence the random Appraise skill check price by reloading, don't you?

edit: Oh, and to touch on my own major complaint about SoU since it is in-topic. it seemed too short to develop some prestige classes like Shifter, WM and yes, even AA to be very effective within the scope of this campaign. We had to wait until the sequel to see these classes come into their own.  And I never allocated to the Spot skill until I played SoU so that was a cultural shock to me. 
               
               

               


                     Modifié par HipMaestro, 22 janvier 2011 - 08:44 .
                     
                  


            

Legacy_jmlzemaggo

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The Expansion is Stupid
« Reply #9 on: January 22, 2011, 08:34:11 pm »


               It reminds me of myself, some time ago.
I couldn't find a module I like, feeling very frustrated considering the power of the game engine I was playing at the time.
So you know what?
I made my own module, one of the best idea I ever had. It opened so many of my own doors...
I didn't know I owned so many houses.

I'll be very pleased to play an Elton John is dead's module some time this life.
               
               

               


                     Modifié par jmlzemaggo, 22 janvier 2011 - 08:36 .
                     
                  


            

Legacy_TSMDude

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The Expansion is Stupid
« Reply #10 on: January 22, 2011, 08:40:21 pm »


               

Elton John is dead wrote...

No and I don't care. They're made by fans not Bioware and each are different from NWN's campaign. The one I did play was called Good Vs Evil III which had no story but had you fighting in wars and building your army. That doesn't sound like NWN to me. It's just been build with the fantastic aurora toolset.


Judging the 100s upon hundreds of modules on one will leave you out of some fantastic experiences. Just saying is all...
               
               

               
            

Legacy_Tarot Redhand

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The Expansion is Stupid
« Reply #11 on: January 22, 2011, 11:07:13 pm »


               I'm sorry you don't like what you are currently playing but to dismiss in excess of 5700 user made modules on the strength of a single one is too much. I have just started a user made module that has me totally blown away. It has got technical things that I don't think the original designers of nwn would have considered possible. Its got custom music and custom voice acting and whole fost of other features. The downside? Its 260 meg of download and I suspect you will need to have other stuff downloaded as well. It's called "Dark Waters 1 - Highcastle Island" and its by Adam Miller. Try it and then tell me all user made mods are rubbish indeed!



TR
               
               

               
            

Legacy_olivier leroux

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The Expansion is Stupid
« Reply #12 on: January 22, 2011, 11:18:39 pm »


               

Elton John is dead wrote...
No and I don't care. They're made by fans not Bioware and each are different from NWN's campaign. The one I did play was called Good Vs Evil III which had no story but had you fighting in wars and building your army. That doesn't sound like NWN to me. It's just been build with the fantastic aurora toolset.


Darkness over Daggerford was not made by Bioware either. I doubt it was planned as an expansion, more likely as a Premium Module, and the Premium Modules - surprise, surprise - are mostly created by fans who got hired by Bioware because Bioware realized how much potential there is in fan-made modules. And obviously, you too, prefer a canceled, quasi fan-made Premium module like Darkness over Daggerford over the official NWN expansion that you deem 'stupid'.

NWN is all about the community, not just about Bioware, otherwise I'd recommend everyone to play Baldur's Gate instead. Of course, that's just my personal opinion, as you do have yours. But I fear you'll never discover anything new and exciting with a "No and I don't care" attitude. Personally I'm glad there is no code dictating what NWN is and what not or what it's got to be. "Good vs Evil" is an extraordinary and exceptional module which naturally means it is the exception to the rule and certainly not everyone's cup of tea. Anything else would probably have catered to your preferences a lot better. If you don't mind my asking, why, of all the thousands of modules on the Vault, did you choose one with the title "Good vs. Evil III" when you were looking for a good story?
':lol:'
               
               

               
            

Legacy_jmlzemaggo

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« Reply #13 on: January 22, 2011, 11:58:31 pm »


               @ Tarot Redhand



Isn't "Dark Waters 1 - Highcastle Island" a NWN 2 module?

Is there an NWN 1 around?
               
               

               
            

Legacy_olivier leroux

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« Reply #14 on: January 23, 2011, 12:13:24 am »


               

jmlzemaggo wrote...
Isn't "Dark Waters 1 - Highcastle Island" a NWN 2 module?
Is there an NWN 1 around?


There's an unsupported protoytpe version for NWN and now that I've given up all hope on being able to play and enjoy NWN2 custom modules I'm about to play it, too. '^_^'