Author Topic: Returning to NWN  (Read 1353 times)

Legacy_kuronue bloodlust

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 217
  • Karma: +0/-0
Returning to NWN
« Reply #30 on: April 12, 2014, 06:48:05 pm »


               


How about defending a village by building defenses instead of fighting off attackers? That could involve crafting as well as many other skills.




I still use the same ciffdale crafting module scripts i cant remember the name right now and I'm bussy bussy with prints for next Saturdays show. its a prety open and great script set lovely base design thou its quite large, that can work to a players and module builders advantage.


               
               

               
            

Legacy_kalbaern

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1531
  • Karma: +0/-0
Returning to NWN
« Reply #31 on: April 12, 2014, 09:25:15 pm »


               


I do not see why the two - coding and DMing - have to be mutually exclusive. I take coding to this level so that my DMed events are more interesting. Granted I retired that kind of NWN dev last year (because doing absolutely everything burned me out), and now I am just coding for a team. But regardless it remains the way I think about it. The module should serve the needs of DMs. And as I pointed out above it is my philosophy that automating things makes a DMs life easier so that they can focus on doing things that are impossible to code.


 


The challenge I laid earlier still stands though: coming up with novel things to do when a DM is not available is key to making a server fun.




I believe along the same lines. there's alot you can do to enhance the experience both for DM events and for when DMs are not around (or simply busy with other PCs).


 


One of my own pet peeves on most PWs is when you can predict (if not memorize) the exact makeup of encounters in certain areas after successive visits. I also recall days long past, long before computerized games, when DMs used a prefabbed module or created their own and populated them with NPCs and various foes. Alot of adventures always contained a "random" element. You could be heading off to clean out the local orc lair, but whilst travelling the road, cutting through plains or breaking a trail through a forest, there was always a -chance- of running into something you may or may not have been prepared for or expected. Even dungeons with set encounters often had -random wandering monster- encounters as well. To replicate these features somewhat I often do the following:


 


- Set encounter areas like a goblin or orc lair may always have goblins/orcs, but ... the encounters scale based on the PC/Party and most creatures that use weapons spawn in with a random selection (aside from some specific archers in guard towers and a few other cases). So while -yesterday- you rounded a corner in Orc Lair A and found; 3 orcs, 1 with a longbow, 1 with a battleaxe and shield and 1 with shortsword and shield, today you find; 3 orcs, 1 with a longsword and shield and 2 using crossbows (those spawning with ranged weapons also have a melee weapon as well). I usually limit any ammunitons to between 10 and 30 total and when ammunitions are expended, they grab their backup melee weapons and charge (often a suprise for pesky elves with bows that try and plink everything off at range '<img'>).


 


- Random encounters in non-themed wilderness areas and as -wandering- monsters in sopme dungeons. Just like in PnP ... these scripted encounters roll a d100 and a result is chosen. For many rare encounters, a secondary die is rolled to see which sub-encounter is chosen. Most random encounters are scaled, but once outside af the few designated -low level- areas, some things have limited scaling. Examples would be that there are no epic goblin assassins spawned if you're a 25th level ranger, you'll instead get a group of goblins that despite their variety and abilities offer no real challenges (and minimal xp) or your 6th level mage might spawn in an ogre or troll that you really should consider avoiding or running away from as those have no suitable low level blueprints. Some encounters can vary based on the time of day as well. Not all random encounters are hostile either. Sometimes the system will generate a merchant or quest giving NPC (both are extremely rare though), sometimes it'll spawn in a loot placeable or a special foraging placeable and in wilderness areas it often spawns in -wildlife- ranging from bunnies to bears, wolves to wolverines, etc... . Most -normal- wild animals also have AIs that while hostile, cause them to ignore a ranger or druid and allow others to pass safely so long as a minimal distance is maintained. Deer, bunnies, squirrels and other non-ferocious game animals often flee into nearby brambles, scamper up a tree, bolt down a nearby hole, etc... .


 


- "Gah ... there's a DM watching us!" is a name I use for my varied ambiance systems. Most intelligent NPCs speak or emote random things based on whether they are in or out of combat and sometimes have expanded emotes/saying when dealt damage or die (ideas garnered from some not too distant posts on these forums ... or was it the last forums .. hrmmmm). Hitting an orc is great fun, but having it emote *Reels back in pain from "Ranger Bob's" blow* grants your PC some self recognition when it happens. I also like using both set and random flavor triggers. Messages based on a lore, language, search or spot check also exist. Sneaking down a corridor to bushwack a goblin sentry could have you trigger an emote from the sentry of *cocks head as if listening*. These kind of little details often only exist when a DM is present and possessing creatures of throwing voices. So when a DM is present, it can make their job all the easier as well. There's already "flavor" in the air, they can enhance it even more or just even observe and reward gameplay.


 


- Factions, rather custom factions are often under utilised on most PWs. I currently employ around 72 of them. Trolls may be hostile to PCs, but they don't care for goblins either. Flee from a troll and spawn a group of goblins ahead of you and you might be suprised. While you might just have a handful of goblins join the pursuit after you, the troll and goblins could just as well ignore you and attack each other instead. A pack of "cooshie" treat most PCs/ Parties as neutral, but will often come to the aid of adventurers fighting orcs and such. In short, well thought out custom (and set as local) factions can really add alot of flavor to a module, even without the addition of custom scripts that expound on it further.


 


When it comes to scenarios such as "Defend the Town", "Sneak into the Jail and release a prisoner", etc... , I prefer to leave as DM'd events. Partially because of the scripting involved, but mainly because if you automate every last thing, there's really no need for a DM at all.



               
               

               
            

Legacy_Comzy67

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 6
  • Karma: +0/-0
Returning to NWN
« Reply #32 on: April 13, 2014, 02:04:29 pm »


               

This is great debate. To save time, I am going to lump everyone's comments int a general statement:


 


If you create a new server, make sure it keeps the players interests.


 


I think both DMing and scripting are useful in this regard. But I want to add a third method, and that is game mechanics.


 


You can never replace DMing, it is the core reason this game stands heads and tails above the rest. I have always liked the DM's RPing as deities, and by doing this it gives the DM's a goal to strive for as well. Perhaps there are two or three main factions, each has favor of a particular god.  Each runs quests to keep their side on top. You could even try to o this in a war, though that is a bit more tricky.  Obviously, this would allow ebb and flow, with possibly some awesome dramatic moments and plot twists. Now I know this is a tricky bit to pull off, and I can see some clear pitfalls, but I think if you have a checks and balance system it could work.


 


Scripting entails everything from quests/conversations, puzzles (I REAAAAALLLLY love these), haks, dynamic weather systems, HCR, crafting, housing, death,and loot systems... and probably more. I think all of these can benefit the server.  Unfortunately with resource limits, sometimes we may be forced to choose between some of the lesser ones.  I guess the big takeaway here is make sure you got as many as you can get, because there is ALWAYS something that can be worked on. On a side note, I am not a scripter myself, tho I can talk in algorithmic pseudo-code some times. If I do continue into this adventure, I will be needing a good scripter (or 5 ) to help out.


 


I think the real core items here under scripting are conversations/quests and crafting. These two things are  important in keeping players busy while DM's try to fight demons and monsters in their real world workplace (bosses, and if your work is like mine .. *sigh*... mini-bosses). I agree with everyone here, that good storylines here can help.  Personally, I am a bit more of a goof, so I would probably inject a lot of geek references and humor into my quests, just because its who I am. Don't worry, I will have some very serious parts as well. I think I will save the storyline part for another post if it is needed, and go into details on those ideas then.


 


The last one of the three was game mechanics, and you are probably saying, well, you covered those under scripting. Well, partially, but what I feel alot of servers lack, and understandably so, as it is a nightmare to understand, is the balance between players and creatures.  There are many layers here, and I will start with the 900 lb gorilla in the room. Class balance, and yes I have personally witnessed way too many servers die from trying to properly nerf spells or play around with HIPS until it is useless.  The issue I have always seen is usually when two player PvP, and someone kills another person. So to try to minimize this issue, I would most likely outlaw PvP and evil chars all together to start out.  As time goes on and players join, maybe a major campaign would introduce some of these, but personally, I feel that the DM's should provide the evil in the world, as this allows better checks and balances. That all being said, I think mage spells are weak and cap early, so I would boost spells up to match damage provided by fighters, in conjunction with that I would probably eliminate potions of healing to make clerics more useful (may also get these through potion brewing). I would not allow ANY items with direct immunities. I may allow +15 (number just for reference, i have no clue at this time what this would be, to ensure balance) to particular rolls or skills, but never all out immunity.  I think those unbalance the game needlessly. Coupling these with a highly dynamic random loot generator, we can have the high players always searching for the right item. This will add some boss and zone replay-ability as well.


 


So to end this post, I guess the first thing I would do, before I started building quests and areas and funs scripts, is get my game mechanics where I want it, especially for PvE. That is key for me. I would rather take a year play testing and making that work, instead of focusing on the other items.  Crafting is a system that can be added, as well as most scripts and areas.   What you cannot do, is change the core game mechanics after launch, without affecting players in a negative way (usually negative).


 


Well I rambled long enough, I appreciate any comments and feedback, after all, I am using this to help me align my own thoughts and I want to come up with a good system that works for everyone. Just like all of you, I want to bring NWN back, to be better than ever.


               
               

               
            

Legacy_Gregor Wyrmbane

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 324
  • Karma: +0/-0
Returning to NWN
« Reply #33 on: April 14, 2014, 03:47:43 am »


               

Comzy, did you play on a server named "Dawn of Nordock" many moons ago?



               
               

               
            

Legacy_Comzy67

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 6
  • Karma: +0/-0
Returning to NWN
« Reply #34 on: April 14, 2014, 11:55:14 am »


               Yes I did.
               
               

               
            

Legacy_ruadhri10

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 52
  • Karma: +0/-0
Returning to NWN
« Reply #35 on: April 14, 2014, 02:41:05 pm »


               

Very interesting thread, and I'd like to thank everyone who contributed, it has given me a lot to think about. '<img'>


I've been (slowly) building a module to DM weekly for some RL gaming buddies and my sis, and this thread has given me a lot of pointers...



               
               

               
            

Legacy_Gregor Wyrmbane

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 324
  • Karma: +0/-0
Returning to NWN
« Reply #36 on: April 14, 2014, 04:17:40 pm »


               


Yes I did.




I thought I recognized that name. My PC's name was Tom Highway.


 


That was a fun place for a while. Then the folks who ran the server seemed to lose their minds, and it all went downhill fast. Then it disappeared. 


 


Glad to see you coming back around. 


               
               

               
            

Legacy_Elhanan

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 842
  • Karma: +0/-0
Returning to NWN
« Reply #37 on: April 14, 2014, 09:37:03 pm »


               

Welcome back! Hope you are able to find or build a place that suits your desires. '<img'>



               
               

               
            

Legacy_Comzy67

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 6
  • Karma: +0/-0
Returning to NWN
« Reply #38 on: April 14, 2014, 11:23:08 pm »


               

I think, after careful consideration, I am going to attempt to host a new server.  Unfortunately I will need to take some time to get things up and running, especially since I am not a good scripter.  Give it some time, and hopefully some further continued discussion here to help me sort out my thoughts.



               
               

               
            

Legacy_henesua

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6519
  • Karma: +0/-0
Returning to NWN
« Reply #39 on: April 15, 2014, 12:52:01 am »


               If you can't script then don't bother with a bunch of what I wrote. You should still give this a try and learn as you go. Best way to approach it is in baby steps. Perhaps host a module just for friends at first and DM some games. You'll learn a lot doing that.
               
               

               
            

Legacy_RPGuru92

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 5
  • Karma: +0/-0
Returning to NWN
« Reply #40 on: May 21, 2014, 02:18:54 pm »


               

I also am thinking about returning to the old old love of mine NWN1, thought about 2 but did not like the experience. I just want to make sure there is an active base before getting the diamond once again. 



               
               

               
            

Legacy_kalbaern

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1531
  • Karma: +0/-0
Returning to NWN
« Reply #41 on: May 22, 2014, 04:44:25 am »


               


I also am thinking about returning to the old old love of mine NWN1, thought about 2 but did not like the experience. I just want to make sure there is an active base before getting the diamond once again. 




There is still plenty of variety left to be sampled.