What resources would you use if you started a PW from scratch today?

[Legacy_Argamath]

               If you were starting work on a new Persistent World today, what existing resources would you use for the base of your module/world?

The past week I've been searching and weighing options. There is a ton of resources out there and it can be intimidating studying each one. What resources have performed well for you in the past that you would use in a new module?

Any help would be appreciated. Thank you.
~Jason
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_The Amethyst Dragon]

               Wow.  That would be a tough call.

I would probably start with several large collections of content to have a broad base to start with: Project Q, CEP, a few CTP tilesets, newer tilesets from the likes of lordofworms, Zwerkules, _six, and others.  Then there'd be additions of content that's available but not in one or other of the larger hak packages. I'd definitely need a custom top hak to merge everything properly.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_MagicalMaster]

               This is definitely something I've been thinking about lately.  In terms of plot/setting/mechanics/etc I know what I want to do and have been working on some of that stuff, but I'm not nearly as good when it comes to aesthetics.

I figured I'd use CEP at a minimum but I'm also going to have some server specific hacks (a lot of feat/class/spell modifications) so hak conflicts is definitely something I'm worried about.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_YeoldeFog]

               The pre-work before you start to build is very important. I spent around one year of collecting resources and merging them together (haks and 2da). Also, a scripter would be great if you can't script.

I would agree with The Amethyst Dragon when it comes to tilesets. After two years, I still add specific content though.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_henesua]

               Before I put together any HAKs I would set to work on designing the world and getting a grasp on what I needed to realize it.

Some of the most important content in a PW however relates to character customization, and items. You need to consider what kinds of clothing, armor, alternative body parts and so on you want and how you will achieve them.

Due to the kinds of worlds I have built so far I have always used Project Q as a base. I find its easiest to add the content I want on top of it, and that I use just about everything that is in Project Q. All the armors, items, heads and so on. This gave me the most room to grow, and set up the PC related content as I wanted it.

All that said... in retrospect, I would consider going HAK-less except for special rules changes while I started building so that I could focus all of my energy on actual game content. Organizing the graphics assets exactly as you want them takes a lot of time to get just right, and that takes away from the time making the stuff that players actually enjoy the most - quests, interesting NPCs, new spells, feats and so on and all the other stuff involved in adventuring with friends online.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_MagicalMaster]

               

henesua wrote...

All that said... in retrospect, I would consider going HAK-less except for special rules changes while I started building so that I could focus all of my energy on actual game content. Organizing the graphics assets exactly as you want them takes a lot of time to get just right, and that takes away from the time making the stuff that players actually enjoy the most - quests, interesting NPCs, new spells, feats and so on and all the other stuff involved in adventuring with friends online.

Yeah, this was pretty much my thought process.

But then I felt I had to consider that most NWN players at this point would like to see at least SOME models and tilesets which aren't default which puts me in the position of saying "So...what's worth using?"  To some degree I have enough ideas that if there was a particularly cool tileset I could probably find a use for it but...there's just so much stuff out there it feels overwhelming at times.

Hence why I'm very interested in this thread.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Argamath]

               Content isn't an issue. I'm going to be modeling it off a world I've been working on/DMing for close to 30 years (ya, I'm old). Scripting is something I haven't done in a few years but I'm knocking the dust and cobwebs off and getting the hang of it again.

The biggest issue for me is the persistency and running a clean server. Some of the areas that need addressing are:

Tileset and Placeable decision before I start building - Project Q, CEP, CTP, so many choices and I'm not sure how to get .haks to play nice together

Character Saving, Security, and Persistency - looks like NWNX/MYSQL database

Clean Up - getting rid of trash, bodies, merchandise overflow to keep performance up.

Monster Spawning and AI Improvements -

Experience Awards - currently I find it way too high for killing creatures. I'd prefer quests and exploration to generate the bulk of experience granted. I'm fine with the first few levels going quickly but I'd like to slow down after that

PC Death - up in the air! In pnp games you die, you make a new character (barring resurrection).

Treasure Generation - needs to be completely overhauled. Slightly lower magic, with various levels of quality for equipment.

PC Customization - the more choices visually the better.

I need to get the skeleton together before I start adding the "meat"
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_henesua]

               

Argamath wrote...

Content isn't an issue. I'm going to be modeling it off a world I've been working on/DMing for close to 30 years (ya, I'm old).

I'm not sure you got my point then. What I meant was to figure out what you want things to look like, what creatures you need, what kind of clothing models etc... THEN go after the CC for it.

My prediliction is to go as custom as reasonable with custom content. Thats why I don't use CEP. CEP is for builders that simply want everything and then later figure out what they'll do with the pieces.

The problem I have with this is that I don't like the limitations of CEP's clothing, heads etc.... and then having to accept everything else that comes along with it that doesn't look like anything I would want in game.

If you have a particular vision, particular creatures, particular clothing that you want - I suggest going out and finding it and compiling it. I used Project Q as a base because all of the parts in it were useful to me.

However if you find that the stuff in CEP is perfect for you, then you should by all means use CEP.

Anyway, thats how to make a decision on that.

In my case however looking back on it all. I can see the benefit now of starting to build with no custom content and slowly gathering the pieces you want along the way. Once you start focusing on graphic assets it becomes a consuming obsession and the temptation to make your own, or modify what is out there starts to get in the way of actually building. I've spent a lot of time with all of this and am at the point where I recognize I've got to focus on key content and not making all the animations and placebales and clothing and tilesets and all that work together in some really cool whole. I've done that, and yet I'm still farther from releasing a bunch of quests and NPCs and DM tools and Roleplay enhancers that I'd like to get in game.

Anyway... enough rambling. There is nothing for it but to dive right in. That the best way. Go out select stuff try it make it work for you. These threads are only so useful. I could list one hundred systems fr you to try like NESS, PRR, DMFI, SIM Tools, ShadowM's Hardcore Tools, Krits Dynamic Deities, CNR crafting versus rolling your own, the various things I have produced over the years... but its overwhelming. The best way to approach this is to identify your immediate needs and then go out and look for solutions to those needs. Trying to tackle all of that at once will really bog things down.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par henesua, 11 février 2014 - 04:45 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Argamath]

               I've been playing with Project Q most of the day and I really like what they have done.

Content is going to take forever, because I'll never be done. There is just too much one can do. Just straight up typing it out would take years and years, let alone scripting it into the game. Maybe my son will continue on, he seems to enjoy it so far, but he's too young to be scripting just yet (he's just learning to read).

If I can nail down the issues I raised above, I can make somewhat limited resources work. I don't need the latest and greatest tilesets, placeables, etc.

The one area I do want to "splurge" in is character customization and looks. I want the players to be able to wear a wide variety of clothing, armor, hats, cloaks, dresses, robes, etc.

To everyone who has contributed so far.. Thank you. You've all been very helpful and kept the gears in my head turning. The help and support is greatly appreciated.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_BelowTheBelt]

               This may be beyond the scope of your ask, but rather than approaching it from just considering the technical assets, you should think about your creative vision.  Your vision drives the need for and the prioritization of technical assets.

What is is about your PW that will be new/different/unique from what already exists?  What's *truly* different?  You need something(s) that you can say is 'unique' about your PW, beyond just the lore that you create.  You know this world inside and out, since you've been DMing it for so long.  The setting is very important but you also need to identify how your PW will be implemented in a way that is new, different, and enhances the setting.

Do not scrimp on this.  Understanding how your world will be implemented in ways that reinforce the setting is quite probably the most important decision you'll make.  If you 'don't' make this decision, your world will be unintentionally bland despite having a cool setting, monsters, or areas.  Personally, I stopped actively building Arenthyor for 3 months while I considered what was already out there, my vision, and what systems, etc... would be critical to support that vision and differentiation.  Then, I refocused and haven't needed to look back.  I'm happy with where Arenthyor sits in the landscape of PWs.

Once you've defined your unique attributes, that's where you find your direction about where to focus on technical assets that you can use or need to create to bring that vision to life.  Focus first on building those systems, scripts, or resources.  While general tilesets/model haks are cool and give the game a fresh look  (Arenthyor uses a lot of tileset haks), they are secondary to having the attributes that firmly reinforce your unique differentiation.  Players will excuse old models or landscapes if they have a compelling reason to play there.

Maybe you've already done this, since you're basing this on something that you've been doing for a long time, or at least have a good place to start.  However, you probably need to make sure you can translate the unique setting into something unique in NWN.  Bringing to life an interesting setting combined with unique systems/attributes that bring the setting to life in new and different ways will help you succeed and keep players.

To that end, understanding your target players is important.  Are you an action server?  A roleplay server?  Both?  If you're focused on action, maybe need assets that create new classes, for example.  If roleplay, maybe you need a faction leadership and reputation system.  

Almost universally, though, players enjoy customizing their PC.  This means putting in a good tailor system and getting a diverse set of heads.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_scruffylad]

               

In terms of custom content, you should certainly consider the big boys, like CEP. While it may not be every builder's cup of tea, a lot of players have it. Its universality lowers the barriers to entry for your PW. (Other sets, like Project Q are great too.)

 

You can certainly have other content, and the non-CEP stuff can set your server part, if used right. But you need to always make sure it's available in a place for people to download. You'll need very clear instructions on your PW's website, and will have to make sure it's always updated and the files are available. (I'm making this hopefully-obvious point because I've tried to get on to a couple of PWs over the years, only to be told that I'm missing one or two haks. I go to their site, can't find it anywhere, and ultimately decide that I'll try a different server instead.)

 

A good tailoring system is essential, for what you want to do. As a player, it's nice to be able to customize the look of my character, make him or her more unique. It also takes some pressure off the builder to produce massive numbers of variant outfits, one in every color. With a good tailor script, the player who really cares about clothes can do all that themselves.