Author Topic: Textures with to much detail.  (Read 624 times)

Legacy_Tonden_Ockay

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Textures with to much detail.
« on: November 22, 2015, 09:10:44 pm »


               

Is it just me?


 


When I try to use textures with too much detail the look a picture pasted to a flat object. However when I use textures with a little less detail/sharpness they tend to look a little better.


 


Any way I just wanted to see if any of you feel the same way. 



               
               

               
            

Legacy_Pstemarie

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Textures with to much detail.
« Reply #1 on: November 22, 2015, 10:23:22 pm »


               

Yeah, _Six warned me about this when I first started making/manipulating textures. I had found some nice looking stone wall textures that were created from photographs and already tiled. However, when used in NWN, they looked awful. A lot of this anomaly has to do with the way the game engine renders objects and lighting.  



               
               

               
            

Legacy_MerricksDad

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Textures with to much detail.
« Reply #2 on: November 22, 2015, 11:32:30 pm »


               

Not that I use dds a lot, but defining your own smoothing method for distant objects by creating your own dds frames might be the way to go. I was discussing the possibility of supplying non-similar frames at different dds levels with I think rjshae on one of my vault entries, and it seems possible that you could scale down your distant varieties with your chosen smoothing, or lack thereof, and present distant objects as more or less blurry, then pack those mipmaps into the dds. I haven't looked around at what is out there, but with the lack of complexity inside the various dds formats, it seems like it would be a really easy thing to create a dds converter for NW style dds and individually manipulate those frames.


 


Much of the tga blurring seems to stem from using a large with high noise or high contrast image, like most of the stuff I put out in texture packages a few years ago. But for some part, it seems you can curb that blurring by supplying txi commands on those high quality texture, so that they don't degrade as much, limiting their rescaled sizes. At least that is how I interpret some of those functions in txi.


 


Another thing I have noticed is how your have your visual settings in the game. Setting my video settings to the highest seems to mess them up less, but I assume that is driven by the video card, not as much the game, past the basics. The same is found with lighting. Two of the computers I have here render light entirely different in game. This one has an issue transitioning from light source to light source, flashing directly from one to another. The other computer transitions over a number of ms.


I actually have a far worse texture out put in GMAX than I do in game, but I think that is because I am working under gmax's optimal scale, which seems to be 10x that of the scale characters are portrayed in NWN. It has actually caused me to ponder rewriting nwmax in a way that it downscales your model to 1/10, or another value you set in the rollout, so that you can benefit in gmax from the more accurate texture representations. My guess is these representation issues are non-existent in newer versions of max.


 


Generally, I prefer to use 1024 pixels to represent 10m of space. Certain parts of character models I prefer to use more pixels per cm than that. I find that unless I am going to fake polygons with a texture, 512 pixel textures are insufficient for tile main textures. Depending on how far character drivers are zoomed in, I find that the optimal texture size on my machine for the largest texture on a tile is actually 2048, which almost nobody agrees with. I want to be able to look at something on a wall and see it is not made of big squares of the same color, so large that stretching in the engine cannot get rid of the square shape. Another method I use for getting rid of squares is to map element shapes at 45 degree angles, at least on one plane. This kind so prestretches the texture, reducing visible squares. Go too far and you get weird plastic look. Another method is to wrap the texture first, then add a noise modifier with a tiny offset, randomly stretching the verts and pulling the texture with it. There is an error in GMAX where you can do that and then delete a previous modifier in the stack and it will revert to the original shape while keeping the tvert offset you just created in reverse. It doesn't work all the time, and sometimes crashes gmax.



               
               

               
            

Legacy_OldTimeRadio

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Textures with to much detail.
« Reply #3 on: November 23, 2015, 05:18:49 am »


               

Tonden, can you provide a specific example of what you're talking about?  Maybe a screenshot that shows the "bad" and the "good" side by side?



               
               

               
            

Legacy_Jedijax

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Textures with to much detail.
« Reply #4 on: November 23, 2015, 06:15:00 am »


               

Exactly. I have used both and it's all according to choice and circumstance. As usual, it is mostly a matter of hit and miss. :/




               
               

               
            

Legacy_Gruftlord

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Textures with to much detail.
« Reply #5 on: November 23, 2015, 10:07:44 am »


               


Tonden, can you provide a specific example of what you're talking about?  Maybe a screenshot that shows the "bad" and the "good" side by side?

I don't know a good comparison for NWN, but if you want to see an example of a very bad case, just look at pictures of Golden Eye 007 for the N64. That one has aged badly and looking at the character heads and their textures today will give you a good example of why too much detail on a texture compared to the detail/polygon count of the model is bad.

http://www.craveonli...ldenEye-007.jpg
               
               

               
            

Legacy_Tonden_Ockay

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Textures with to much detail.
« Reply #6 on: November 23, 2015, 03:06:32 pm »


               

here is on that I think looks good


 


nf43gh.jpg


 


 


Here is one that I don't think looks very good. To me it looks like a post of rock pasted on a flat object.


 


 


280zg6.jpg


 


 


What do you all think?


               
               

               
            

Legacy_Tonden_Ockay

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« Reply #7 on: November 23, 2015, 03:08:02 pm »


               

After posting it it doesn't look as bad in a pic as it does in game I guess.



               
               

               
            

Legacy_OldTimeRadio

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Textures with to much detail.
« Reply #8 on: November 23, 2015, 03:27:57 pm »


               

Ah, thanks!  I think I can see why you might favor that top one a little more.  There's less contrast and there are some natural depth cues like the smooth shading on the mortar that makes it look a bit more natural.  I think they both qualify as detailed textures, though.



               
               

               
            

Legacy_Zwerkules

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Textures with to much detail.
« Reply #9 on: November 23, 2015, 03:52:33 pm »


               


After posting it it doesn't look as bad in a pic as it does in game I guess.




When using photos for textures it matters a lot how the secene was lit when the photo was taken. Lots of photos are completely useless because of different light on different parts of them. You can also pretty much forget everything that was photographed using a flash. And in a lot of photos there's just far too much light. Sometimes the latter can be 'fixed' with photo editing software, but rarely. Even if you make them darker the light still looks wrong.


 


BTW the second texture you used is upside down. That might also contribute to it looking wrong.


Edit: Taking a closer look at it I think the first one is also upside down, it's just not that obvious.


               
               

               
            

Legacy_Tonden_Ockay

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« Reply #10 on: November 23, 2015, 04:05:36 pm »


               

Thanks Zwerkules good eye I wounder if something got flipped went converting the textures from Skyrim dds to NWN tga. I will look int to this and see how it looks.


 


Oh and ya the more I even take pictures with my camera (with the family) the more I don't like the flash. So I can see your point with the lighting when the picture is being taken.



               
               

               
            

Legacy_Tonden_Ockay

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« Reply #11 on: November 23, 2015, 06:19:57 pm »


               

Well I guess this looks better then the default textures


 


2j601hw.jpg


 


xqhque.jpg



               
               

               
            

Legacy_Tonden_Ockay

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« Reply #12 on: November 23, 2015, 06:23:29 pm »


               

After looking at this NWN1 really need updated character models and armor/clothing.


 


Oh and wow those rocks on that new rock wall look a little to BIG.



               
               

               
            

Legacy_Tonden_Ockay

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Textures with to much detail.
« Reply #13 on: November 23, 2015, 06:23:34 pm »


               

After looking at this NWN1 really need updated character models and armor/clothing.


 


Oh and wow those rocks on that new rock wall look a little to BIG.