Author Topic: What, exactly, was Lord Rosenkrantz talking about in 2008?  (Read 387 times)

Legacy_OldTimeRadio

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What, exactly, was Lord Rosenkrantz talking about in 2008?
« on: March 06, 2014, 10:29:47 pm »


               

Years ago, I came across this post by Lord Rosenkrantz in the Beta 4 patch thread for 1.69.  It's also in the Omnibus


 


His basic request to Bioware's Craig Welburn was pretty simple.  He was requesting environment mapping be enabled for VFX and that the visualeffects.2da row cap be increased.  Probably to something really high.  Here are relevant excerpts from that message: 


 



--SNIP--


VFX models

Currently no VFX models can use an environmental map on the alpha channel of their textures. It isn't an issues as long as one uses emitters instead of meshes (most visual effects are done that way), but it becomes a real issue when one tries to use VFXs for less orthodox uses, like for example as a replacement for a "model attaching to creature node" system. Since this new engine option didn't make it in the patch (hence won't ever be added), PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE let's have environmental mapping enabled for VFXs. I'm down on my e-knees begging you, there is a whole enormous CC project that is heavily relying on this change, and many CC authors are looking at it for future developments. It is a key features that would unlock new perspectives that are currently crippled.

Either having the engine to read in the txi files associated to the textures or having a "reflection" column in visualeffects.2da would work. Please, it's very important. We've already started collecting a bribe.


 


--SNIP--


Especially the VFX request is critical for future custom content development. If it helps the cause, you can have full details on the project that is relying on it, and it's something that would directly positively impact on players and not only CC authors or module builders. It'd allow for a better and more complete system that would offer a new gameplay style for NWN1.

To this goal there is a further request that is even more important:
please increase the visualeffects.2da row cap in line with the new cap for tails.2da and wings.2da. The cap is currently 65k, and it is not nearly enough to replace the "model attaching to creature node" system that we were hoping for.

We can do it by VFXs, but we need the cap to be raised for that. Please, during long chats on the DLA IRC channel we tried to figure out any workaround, but not even knowledgeable people like Ragnarok_mr4 or Brian Chung could come up with any solution to bypass the problem. Again, I'm down on my e-knees here, please raise the cap on visualeffects.2da



 


It wasn't until a few years after I read it that I started to run across the message above with some frequency in the Omnibus while searching for other stuff.  I figured it had to do with brute forcing character customization combinations, for instance, which is why I assume somebody would likely need the 65K limit on visualeffects.2da raised. 


 


But I can't be sure.


 


His use of the term "new gameplay style" made me think it might be something else.  When I read that comment, I can't tell if he meant a truly different gameplay style (i.e. something other than Roleplay, Social, Action etc) or if, again, it was just something like character customization in the same zipcode as Goudea/Enki's hair as helmets idea. 


 


His indication that "there is a whole enormous CC project that is heavily relying on this change, and many CC authors are looking at it for future developments. It is a key features that would unlock new perspectives that are currently crippled" gave me the impression that it was something more than, for instance, the 3-part shields in Project Q and also that there would probably be a few people around who could comment on what the idea was and why it couldn't be carried out some other way.


 


Can anyone comment and explain it further?  Am I just seeing something that was already achieved but described vaguely enough that I didn't make the connection as to what they were talking about?


 


I can make some really wild guesses but does anyone actually know?


 


Thanks!



               
               

               
            

Legacy_cervantes35

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What, exactly, was Lord Rosenkrantz talking about in 2008?
« Reply #1 on: March 06, 2014, 11:26:26 pm »


               

OldTime Radio


 


I am not totally sure of this but I believe it had to do with this hak. This is what I remember from my dad many years ago that he Lord Rosenkrantz, Diademus, Six had created a project team prior to the Q. They had devoloped a new supermodel adding many dummy nodes which would allow vfx, for all shields , swords, backpacks and all types of equipment to be display on your characters body in sheaths and and such in game and on your character sheet.  I maybe wrong, maybe six or baba yaga could shed more light on it.


 


http://nwvault.ign.c....Detail&id=5240



               
               

               
            

Legacy_Bannor Bloodfist

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What, exactly, was Lord Rosenkrantz talking about in 2008?
« Reply #2 on: March 07, 2014, 01:48:00 am »


               

That was likely a big part of it, as to the 'large group' he was referring to the preceding Project Q team but I can't remember what his name was for the group at that point in time.  He wanted to use the 2da lines for various things, including I believe, alternate races etc.  He had quite a few grandiose schemes on his mind at that point in time.



               
               

               
            

Legacy_cervantes35

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What, exactly, was Lord Rosenkrantz talking about in 2008?
« Reply #3 on: March 07, 2014, 02:03:52 am »


               

I think they called it something wierd like Nevermonkees. That might not be it but it was along that road.



               
               

               
            

Legacy_gutwrench66kg

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What, exactly, was Lord Rosenkrantz talking about in 2008?
« Reply #4 on: March 07, 2014, 05:48:43 am »


               

There were a number of reasons for the requested envmap feature on vfx.


 


Dynamic inventory was one of them. Since current vfx dont' allow for them, the reflective surfaces on a shield or a sword would apply to the weapons in hand, but when they were unequipped and a vfx was attached to the player, the textures would end up flat and non-reflective.



               
               

               
            

Legacy_NWN_baba yaga

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What, exactly, was Lord Rosenkrantz talking about in 2008?
« Reply #5 on: March 07, 2014, 09:05:52 am »


               

USAgreco66kg is right. Dynamic inventory was the reason for it. IT could have worked if it wasnt been wished to be something totally outstanding and not just a feature. I modeled so many weapons and backpack stuff and the idea was getting crazier and way to complicated


and i felt strange because there already was a system we could have used with some minor improvements and thats it.


 


I remember a count of more than "10000" of separate models or entrys he needed and that made me angry... this count was fantasy and not acceptable for a hobby modder not being paid for his work...


 


Well... not so good memories of myself....


 


I´m very embarassed over my own behaviour in that time and i know it was my fault how the relationship ended. I went amok vs everyone so nevermonkeys is a period of time like a blackhole... i was never there...no i wasnt '<img'>



               
               

               
            

Legacy_OldTimeRadio

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What, exactly, was Lord Rosenkrantz talking about in 2008?
« Reply #6 on: March 07, 2014, 05:53:21 pm »


               

Thanks, everyone, for the help in solving that little mystery!  I really appreciate it.



               
               

               
            

Legacy_Wall3T

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What, exactly, was Lord Rosenkrantz talking about in 2008?
« Reply #7 on: March 07, 2014, 09:22:00 pm »


               

i absolutly enjoy what Lord Rosenkratz created for this community, but was there a reason why he stopped his custom content? if i recall (or just heard) his work wasnt exactly appreciated, in the way he wanted it to



               
               

               
            

Legacy_NWN_baba yaga

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What, exactly, was Lord Rosenkrantz talking about in 2008?
« Reply #8 on: March 07, 2014, 09:56:54 pm »


               

He made a last statement or "testament" on his nwvault page which is very clear and spot on. IT´s almost 6 years ago since he left. I have no right to say what was going on in his mind but if i´m allowed to say i think that he did a lot and what he recieved + frustration and insults wasnt enough (or balanced) to keep up the work with nwn.


In the end it should be about fun. And that wasnt the case for him anymore... the same as with everyone else who left... no fun or no rewarding moment anymore!


 


Thats why I said it only matters what you think how your work is. Dont do it for anyone else. Artists or modders have to work on their own visions, no one gonna pays you and no one can be forced to love your work. Share with an open mind but do your stuff as you see it should be, simple as that.


 


We see it in the gaming industry today. The ideas are thrown into a marceting machine of what makes money and what not and out comes COD4 and and and... there is a change and thats great but still there is this nasty sky of boring, dull and streamlined stuff hanging above '<img'>


 


We need visions and creative people and i only believe that individuality is what really counts and not what a community or mass wants. We werent here today without all the inspirations we have gathered conscious or unconscious from all the impressions during our life time. I fear that the less people express their own visions the more the art gets streamlined into a dull mass of one similar "art abomination" stripped of all individuality and freshness!


 


If anyone wants to be in the talk in the modscene of an unimportant, uncreative mass of gamers just do a nudemod 2014 for this or that game , name yourself "l33tsick0-pantsdown" and your reputation and download count is always on your side... '<img'>



               
               

               
            

Legacy_henesua

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What, exactly, was Lord Rosenkrantz talking about in 2008?
« Reply #9 on: March 07, 2014, 11:18:27 pm »


               

Wow, I did not know about nevermonkeys since I was not in the toolset back then. But I decided to look for them and found a forum. An impressive gathering of artists. I'm glad to see some of you still around.


 


And, Baba, I like the way you think. Artists should indulge their muse, realizing their visions.


 


I think one of the reasons people burn out with NWN is that feelings of obligation start to creep in to places where before you just had the joy of creation. The raw and personal creative urge should definitely be indulged in my view.



               
               

               
            

Legacy_NWN_baba yaga

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What, exactly, was Lord Rosenkrantz talking about in 2008?
« Reply #10 on: March 07, 2014, 11:45:27 pm »


               

The feeling of "obligation" nails it for me henesua and that this "changed" motivation can or automaticaly lead to a burnout is very plausible. When you start being dependant on others oppinions it can be quite hard and surely more frustrating than rewarding because you cant say to others... i want this reward for my freetime work but on the other hand you expect or wish them to thank you in a way "you" only know...


 


The many guests on the nevermonkey forum are 75% spambots that are lost... '<img'> 



               
               

               
            

Legacy_Wall3T

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What, exactly, was Lord Rosenkrantz talking about in 2008?
« Reply #11 on: March 08, 2014, 12:41:10 am »


               

well said baba. its a good way to show you can still appreciate someones work, even if they left the community.


I do know that Mondego took up some of his work, and i hope others will follow in lord Rosenkratz work. it would be amazig to see more of that within the community again.