Jumping in the Pool

[Legacy_WoC_Builder]

               Well, I am finally going to get over my fear of modeling and try my hand.  Now with a major PW update behind me, and holiday vacation coming, it is a perfect time to finally start to learn the skills.  I am ressurecting a project that I started here.  Most of what I found suggested using existing works and making modifications.  My intent is simply to import other tiles and re-texture; nothing that truly requires Gmax.  But I might want to try and smooth some of the rough edges (clouds), possibly add something if the inspiration strikes me, so figured I had best learn.

Now, knowing NOTHING about how Gmax works, I rooted around looking for tutorials for dummies.  The best entry-level primer I found was this one written by Estelindis.  Estelindis, I attempted to send you a PM, but it seemed that it would not let me add you; hence the friend request you'll probably see (seems you might have to approve that, cause it still would not let me PM you '> ) and this post.

Este, my question for you is...did you happen to write more along that vein?:innocent:  If so, I could really use it. 
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Estelindis]

               I cannot remember right now if I wrote any other modelling tutorials.  In the past, I have brought a few people through the basics in real time, with both of us in GMax and connected via chat, since that's the way Bannor Bloodfist very generously taught me and it's seemed to work well.  Maybe, if you're having trouble with anything, we might do that sometime.

I do have a PLT tutorial, but that's probably not relevant to you at the moment. '>. There are other tutorials in the Learning Curve forum that might help you, though - have you looked at those?
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Estelindis, 15 décembre 2013 - 01:23 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_TheOneBlackRider]

               Since I had to find out things step by step, too, roaming many sits and posts and asking lots of questions (here), I'd like to try to create a quick start, if there not already one out there.
But I'm not sure, how fast I can be... I try to do it as quick as possible!

And Estelindis: The PLT-link doesn't lead anywhere...
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Estelindis]

               Okay, that's strange.  I was posting from my phone, but I could have sworn that I pasted the correct URL.  It's fixed now (not that it's especially relevant to the present discussion, since I don't think anyone was even looking for PLT advice, but it's the only other tutorial I can think of that I wrote).
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Estelindis, 15 décembre 2013 - 01:28 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Estelindis]

               By the way, I should probably note that, while I think the easiest way to start off is to modify existing objects in existing models, it can be all too easy to just stay doing that because it's what you know best.  In fact, though, once you've grasped the basics of modifying objects, you can very often accomplish what you want more easily by creating new objects.  You can determine the parameters of various basic objects (box, cylinder torus, etc) in a way that best suits what you're trying to make.   '>
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_TheOneBlackRider]

               Since that is something, I always wanted to do, here is a start:




Import your model (using NWgmax: http://www.tbotr.net/).

Use the "Select by Name" button (red) to get a list of the all the objects/parts, which make up the model.

To get a better view of the structure, check "Display Subtree" (orange). The top listed name is the model base, which you'll need to choose, if you want to export your model.

To modify a object/part either click it in one of the views (the curse is displayed as "+") or click it in the "Select Object" window (red)

Now click the "blue rainbow" (yellow) and you will see, that the selected part name is also displayed here. To move around verts (vertex means a corner or a point where lines of a polygon meet), unfold the "Editable Mesh" by clicking the "+" and select "Vertex".
The verts of that part will be shown in blue. Now click one vert (selected verts will turn red) and the "Select and Move" button (green).
Easiest way to move the vert is by pointing the cursor over one of the three coordinate-arrows (green, red, blue). The cursor will turn into an shape of a four direction arrow. Click and drag.
You can also enter specific coordinates or values (Absolute Mode bottom) (green rectangle at the bottom).

If you want to be sure, that you only select visible verts, check "Ignore Backfacing" (pink). Otherwise it may happen, that verts, which are in line with the clicked vert(s) will be selected, too.

If there are too many objects, right click on your selected object and use "Hide.../Unhide..." to get a better overview.

If you are finished with your alterations, use the "Select by Name" button (red), choose the model base (top name, if you have selected "Display Subtree" (orange), select the "blue rainbow" and (towards the bottom right) specify your export directory and hit "Export".
A good way to quickly check your results is to export into the override folder.

REMARK: If you run the toolset/test it IG while Gmax is open, Gmax will warn you, that it is loosing the display and that you must use "w" to recover it, when changing back to Gmax again. One problem might be, that Gmax might not display the verts anymore! In this case, you must restart Gmax.

And always safe your doings in different Gmax-scenes!

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Adding new objects will be done in a different tutorial.

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If you want to replace textures, you could do it in a simple text editor (if it's uncompressed). Open up the *.mdl file, search for "bitmap" and replace the according entry.

Exchanging/applying a texture in Gmax will be done in a different tutorial.

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Hope, that helps for a start.
BR
               
               

               

                     Modifié par TheOneBlackRider, 15 décembre 2013 - 02:15 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Pstemarie]

               Unless you're just replacing the texture with a modified version of the original, I would never just rely on a text editor to swap textures. Any new texture that is used will need to be mapped to achieve the best results.

Other than that...great start.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Valthrendir]

               In addition to the post above me  (pstemarie posted in the meantime) the tutorial above, it might be useful to note that the green/purple forms in the screenshot are showing the walkmesh of the edited tile. The grey surfaces are the shapes that will be visible ingame; therefore new textures are assigned to these surfaces.

As far as modeling is concerned: I recommend watching some low-polygon modeling videos on the web, pay attention to what other people use to lower the amount of time you need to spend on the learning curve (if you really want to get into making your own models, that is).
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Valthrendir, 15 décembre 2013 - 02:40 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Rolo Kipp]

               <pontificating...>

Estelindis wrote...
...
There are other tutorials in the Learning Curve forum that might help you, though - have you looked at those?

*points to his siggy smugly*

<...silently>
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_WoC_Builder]

               Wow!  Thanks for the help (and offers of help!) everyone.  '>

Estelindis, I may take you up on that offer.  Being an old guy, I learn best by hands on (read "holding my hand while I push the buttons"  '> ).  I must admit, looking at the screen with a model open looks a little daunting, but I need to get over that fear if I am to finally contribute something after so many years of using.  Besides...I love this game.  '>

One Black Rider, that is right up my alley!  Assume I don't know ANYTHING about Gmax, and write like I'm a complete ignoramus...and you will be spot on. 

Rolo (and et al '>) I have looked at the Learning Curve (indeed, it is bookmarked), but I need to start with the basics, and that means simply learning to navigate with the program.  When I read the tutorials there, it is all Greek to me; I need to learn the language first. 

Valthrendir, unfortunately videos are not an option for me at home, as I hit the internet through a very slow 3g connection on my phone (rural Montana).  I did however immediately look for some inexpensive manuals on Amazon; "The Gmax Bible" and "The Gmax Handbook".  Has anyone used these, and if so, are there any recommendations?  '>  I found more manuals of course tailored specifically to 3DS Max, but that is to be expected since that is a higher-end version, and used commercially (industry standard).

Manuals may help, as the "cookbook" method probably would work well for me too, as I can look at a nice picture, push the buttons, and so learn that way.  :happy:

Thanks again for helping an FNG learn the ropes, folks!
               
               

               

                     Modifié par WoC_Builder, 15 décembre 2013 - 03:24 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Estelindis]

               I have not tried any of these manuals.  However, there are GMax help files and tutorials available on the same original download page of GMax itself: http://www.turbosquid.com/gmax  I think that they're quite decent.  '>

If you do feel like taking me up on the offer, I'd be most available over the course of the Christmas holidays.  Send me a PM if you'd like to fix a date and time.  '>
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Estelindis, 15 décembre 2013 - 03:28 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_WoC_Builder]

               Ooh!  I may have to look into buying a second monitor so I can have both applications up at the same time!  Great tip, Estelindis, thank you!  '> 

This does not look quite so daunting anymore...just a little daunting. 

And I'll certainly be sending you a PM, Estelindis.  Many thanks!  Now to get my microphone out, and figure out how to use that. 
               
               

               

                     Modifié par WoC_Builder, 15 décembre 2013 - 04:10 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_TheOneBlackRider]

               Yes, a good way to start is to tweak an existing model. Use the NWNexplorer to export one, tweak it and export it into the override folder. Fire up the toolset (or use the NWNexplorer) to view your results.

It is smart to "turn off" the walkmesh to get a better view of the model itself, like Valthrendir wrote: Find it via the "Select Object" window or click it in the view, right click and select "Hide Selection".

If you want Gmax to show the model textured, you'll need to export (eg. via NWNexplorer) / collect all wanted textures to/in the same folder, where you're importing your model from.

And yes, Pstemarie, retexturing via (G) Max should be the official way, but that is an art by itself... (I'm still not a 100% in control of that, but meanwhile I manage the basics...)


And I forgot to write, that you can use the buttons in the bottom right to change the view of the model (eg. zoom, turn around, ...). Just play with it.

Thanks for all the remarks. I'll work them in and will release a brushed up version to the vault(s), when done.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par TheOneBlackRider, 15 décembre 2013 - 04:51 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Tarot Redhand]

               @WoC_Builder I own a copy (not for sale!) of the gmax bible (I just haven't got around to using it properly, yet) and think it is quite an impressive book. In fact from what I can gather, if you are going to get a book on the subject, then this is THE one to to get. In terms of statistics there are 785 pages of actual content, 21 pages of appendices, 10 pages for the glossary, 31 pages for the index and quite a few pages before you start. It comes complete with a cd that contains amongst other things all the chapter examples already done for you.

Hope this helps.

TR
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Tarot Redhand, 15 décembre 2013 - 08:24 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_WoC_Builder]

               And in case any want to follow my trials and tribulations, I already started a project thread over at the new Neverwinter Vault page.  Rumination and cogitation a-plenty!  I'm focusing right now on trying to line the project out in a logical manner, and not just jump willy-nilly into the middle of it and make a mess.  I have a feeling I'll want to be orderly about his.  '>