"Ask not what the CEP can do for you, but ..."

[Legacy_henesua]

               

Rolo Kipp wrote...
As I understand the rights CEP is retaining, this thread would be far more profitable pursuing something along the lines of what Henesua's proposing. 
In fact, I even proposed a couple names for the project... <no, boss! don't...!>
My favorite is H.O.P.E. <*raven groan*>
Hostility & Oppression Prevention Experiment <*face-wing*>
Or perhaps the CCCI - Custom Content Coordination Initiative?

<...get out of sight>

No, don't throw those names out! I am not ready with a good name yet!

Crap.......   '>
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Rolo Kipp]

               <speaking behind...>

<the old man's not ready with a good name yet either :-P just run while you have the chance. his ears are smoking and he's grinning. totally *not* good>

<...the old wizard's back>
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Urk]

               

Rolo Kipp wrote...

As I understand the rights CEP is retaining, this thread would be far more profitable pursuing something along the lines of what Henesua's proposing.
In fact, I even proposed a couple names for the project... <no, boss! don't...!>
My favorite is H.O.P.E. <*raven groan*>
Hostility & Oppression Prevention Experiment <*face-wing*>
Or perhaps the CCCI - Custom Content Coordination Initiative?

This is an idea I completely support. One needn't take over a project to apply fixes. A simple top hack would do, and could be used to tie together other outside projects as optional modules as well like, as has been suggested, AD's haks, hardcore rules, and DMFI. My only obejection is to the idea of somehow hijacking the CEP project itself.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Carcerian]

               I don't think the poster's initial intent was really about hijacking, as much as just saying **** or get off the pot, lol...

That said, there are several positive, non-confrontational ways that individuals can help CEP if they really do care '>

Foremost: post fixes, so that the CEP team can review them, and more immediatly, so devs can dl, test and use them.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Carcerian, 01 juillet 2012 - 07:21 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_NWN_baba yaga]

               The CCCI sounds very good. So new players/ builders can easily be directed to their specific needs too w/o having to make a compromise about compatibility/ support problems.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_AndarianTD]

               Let's try to keep things civil here, folks.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par AndarianTD, 01 juillet 2012 - 07:08 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Carcerian]

               CCCI could also stand for Custom Content Collection Index '>

Everything is modular, with documentation, and made easily accessable.

(Wiki?)
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Carcerian, 01 juillet 2012 - 07:29 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Pstemarie]

               

Carcerian wrote...

Personaly I find the Krit's Spells for CEP Fixes in the "can't live without" catagory, and should to be added to CEP ASAP.

Thanks for pointing that out to me  I've just finished implementing the necessary elements (as far as the changes we've made) of it into Project Q v1.5.

Krit, if you're reading this...you have been given full credit for your work. I wish I had reliable contact information for you so I could have gotten your permission first.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Pstemarie, 01 juillet 2012 - 07:32 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_B_Harrison]

               I'd assumed [the arguments expressed in this thread by baba yaga et al] would be accepted as facts by now, uneasily or not, without the same old battles taking place. These concerns and sentiments have been present for years that I'm aware of, and shared by the people who I (now somewhat more objectively than ever) consider to be the most inspired, sincere, and forward-thinking modders to have graced this RPG. Likewise by people who are not custom content experts or prolific community artists, but outstanding examples of the creative world builders and module hosts this game was developed for.

Maybe they, and all of those coming to similar conclusions now, are wrong.

Sadly, I don't think it's relevant whether or not a differently-managed, replacement, or alternative Community Mod is necessary and/or superior for the purposes of the game community in general and for the personal experiences of all the module and PW developers and players. Because one must first ask, and answer, these questions honestly:

• Can/will such a project be adopted by the NWN community and its modules en masse?
• Does it need to be adopted en masse [to justify completing the project]?
• If so, how are you going to do that?

I'd love to see it happen (and I'd probably be available to make some content too), but it seems to me it'd only be a community project if the community were to use it.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Shadooow]

               

Carcerian wrote...

Personaly I find the Krit's Spells for CEP Fixes in the "can't live without" catagory, and should to be added to CEP ASAP.

Thats bringing me onto the idea of community patch and CEP work together. My unofficial patch already fixed most of these issues (flame weapon ommiting one creature slot, every weapon boost working with CC weapons, not just those in CEP) an it allows to mark any creature as:
- flying (immunity to ground-effects)
- immune to petrify
- immune to planar rift (BBotD)
- water breathing (immune to drown)
- sightless (immune to flare)
- light-vulnerable
- mindless (immune to certain spell effect, cant recall now specifics)

using single local variable integer on creature blueprint.

Now, Q or CEP could use this instead of creating their own adjustments into spells (which needs to both compiled and uncompiled scripts in haks (which is extremely bad idea since it overwrites version in module which might be completely different) or external erf. Not to mention that using local variable is certainly better and forwards/backwards compatible. Of course, I fear this will never happen. CEP didnt even allowed me to take few models I wanted to use in my project (clarification: ive requested two times permission from Barry, he said its not his work and he will let me know - but never did that actually, tried to poke him once, second time I abadoned that content). Not sure about Q, but seeing that member of CC groups works on something Ive already did isnt encouraging to think they will care.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par ShaDoOoW, 01 juillet 2012 - 08:34 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_NWN_baba yaga]

               I have to admit i never cared to much about the CEP integration in all the available modules just because I realy only create, test, create and build since my first day with nwn. Now over the last months my interest grew to to actually play some hours w/o 3dsmax in my backmind and checked  the module section intensively. And it´s not as easy I always thought it is to get a module working and the CEP has a big part of it. So yeah;)
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Pstemarie]

               

ShaDoOoW wrote...

Now, Q or CEP could use this instead of creating their own adjustments into spells (which needs to both compiled and uncompiled scripts in haks (which is extremely bad idea since it overwrites version in module which might be completely different) or external erf. Not to mention that using local variable is certainly better and forwards/backwards compatible. Of course, I fear this will never happen. CEP didnt even allowed me to take few models I wanted to use in my project (clarification: ive requested two times permission from Barry, he said its not his work and he will let me know - but never did that actually, tried to poke him once, second time I abadoned that content). Not sure about Q, but seeing that member of CC groups works on something Ive already did isnt encouraging to think they will care.

The script adjustments added to Project Q are localized to the demo modules and not required to use Q. The scripts are included more as a convenience for Builders. They can ignore them or incorporate them into their modules as they see fit.

Project Q has a standing policy to only implement scripts or script changes when we have added content that mandates scripting resources. Such scripts represent our methodology and will always be the bare minimum necessary to use said content. Builders are always free to take the Q content and develop their own script-driven implementation.

Project Q has no intention nor desire to develop a comprehensive package that address script-based issues. That venue is IMO (at least) the providence of the Community Patch and/or the PRC.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Pstemarie, 01 juillet 2012 - 11:12 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Eagles Talon]

               Greetings to the Community.  (yes all of you)

I have just read this entire thread and...my brain hurts.

First let me tell you a few things about myself.  I'm a User.  Yes that's right, a User.  I play NWN.  I DM NWN, I build NWN.  That's about it.  I have no idea how to do custom content and unfortunately I'm probably much too old to learn and not artistically or coding skilled enough to learn it.   I've followed Bioware forums since I started the game many years ago.  I help run a PW and play on several others from time to time. I love this game and everyone who has any hand at all in making it better.

That being said, I'm a big fan of the CCCI suggestion.  Bringing all of those different packages together for the betterment of the community would be a dream come true.  But dreams rarely come true do they?  Ego's and "Intelectual Property" come into play. How unfortunate that everyone can't just play nice together.  The server I co-run now was once developed by another group of very skilled and talented people.  They were big on the "Intelevctual Property" thing too.  Then all of a sudden they closed the doors.  After a while they made their once "Intellectual Property" available for the whole world on Source Forge.  We took it as offered and maintained their original work for all to enjoy freely as NWN was meant to do.  Ego's are a hard thing to break.  Break is the wrong word.  We don't want to break ego's, we want to massage them, share them, enjoy them, encourage them.  True artists and those skilled in vital ares of work often have trouble sharing.  It's just human nature.  

But the big thing or point I'm trying to make here I guess is that really it's all about the User.  The Player.  Someone who has no idea what is going on behind the scenes.  We like to think we are doing what we do for them.  It's when we start believeing that we are doing it for ourselves that things get screwy.

My plea to all concerned here is to remember why you started doing the things you do.  Remember the joy of playing this game and what benifits the things you do bring to the lowly player, DM, Builder.

Play nice, and do whatever you can do to bring it all together for the betterment of everyone's playing experience.

NWN1 is like no other game before or since.  Let's make it even better.

I have no idea how.  I have no real good suggestion for getting the ego's to work together.  But it must be done, and done soon or NWN1 will go the way of Zork.  Lost in history as one of the best things to hit the gaming market.  Remember NWN1?  Yeah, those were the good ole days.

ET
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Rolo Kipp]

               <bowing...> to a master>

B_Harrison wrote...
... Because one must first ask, and answer, these questions honestly:

• Can/will such a project be adopted by the NWN community and its modules en masse?
• Does it need to be adopted en masse [to justify completing the project]?
• If so, how are you going to do that?

Yes! Exactly!

I want to expand a bit on that. I've mentioned it before in other places/other ways, but think it should be moved to a new thread, since it's tangential to Kalbearn's OP.

I'd love to see it happen (and I'd probably be available to make some content too), ...

 
Oh my, yes! *Please* do!

<...to a master>