Author Topic: Trent Oster again (11/16/2015) mentions the plans and obstacles for a NWN Overhaul  (Read 2054 times)

Legacy_Shadooow

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Where you get this info about bg2:EE? I was keeping an eye on bg2:EE from start since I was engaged in bg2 modding scene not as a developer but a reviewer/user.


 


I know BG2EE get numerous patches which might adress some of the issues and add new functionalities but in the time I was following it there were none. I cant find anything about it now too.


 


IIRC Weidu and most mods has been rewrote to be compatible with bg2EE but I am not aware of any official support for modding. Last posts from czech BG2 forum about EE are from 2015 and they are suggesting that players (who played bg2 before) are still hardly adjusting to several missing features/changes and they don't like it. Still seems that oldtimers are playing vanilla+mods rather than EE...


 


The same might happen here - graphical improvements might very likely lead to change in camera control etc. and as a player I would really dislike it if it would behave as NWN2 for example.


 


Anyway, you are right, without potential NWN:EE there is probably nothing else to fix the player base stagnation. I am just saying that I wouldn't be overly optimistic it will change anything.



               
               

               
            

Legacy_Gruftlord

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               The biggest fear would be that any NWN:EE would be updated with modern 3d graphical features. i'm not sure anyone would want to risk investing in a NWN:EE while changing so little graphically so it does not break any custom content. I can see the benefit from adding multi core support, steam cloud integreation, gamespy replacement and the like. but i fear it would be bundled with bump mapping and physically based rendering.

Looking at some old reviews, even back then the squareness of the tile based areas was criticized by most reviewers, so i don't know how much this could still be a seller today. as others have noted, today, NWNs legacy in the public eye is much less known than names such as Baldurs Gate or Icewind Dale, so a stronger rework would probably be required to sell it to newcomers. You may argue that thought, but you would have to agree, how the suits that make the decisions would very much think like that. Then there's the whole mess with the license. I think since there currently is a license holder for a game called "Neverwinter", that offers online play, they may have a line in that contracts that allows them exclusive rights for game development with that name and online functionality. Especially if the competition would offer unlimited online worlds for free...

Some other company tried to dodge that trouble by calling their game "swordcoast legends" and adding a monetization scheme to make money out of the whole persistent world idea. We know how that went...

I see so many trouble and financial risks with a NWN:EE, that i wouldn't want to risk any money on it.

In more positive note: i'm pondering the idea of writing a quick and dirty guide to get NWN rolling in 2016, how the best set it up, what are the most up to date guides, how to get online and meet people. nothing fancy, but something more to the point than the (sometimes a bit outdated) specific guides available elsewhere. let's see how bored i am on saturday...
               
               

               
            

Legacy_Lilura

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Where you get this info about bg2:EE?




 


I've spoken with aVENGER and the Infinity Engine is my forte so it's EZ to see what they've taken from the modders. I'm not a fan of changing the IE RPGs at all and it's true old timers just stick with vanilla and prefer to mod it themselves, but this isn't about the veterans: it's about getting new players. Mods are being made compatible with EE and veterans can reverse many of the changes they don't like.


 


I think the strategy cam of NWN2 would work fine in NWN1; it's just the kludgy Electron engine that makes it feel "off". Anyway, most of the cam issues were fixed with patches and NWN2 has long since had the most versatile cam of any RPG. That said, I doubt Beamdog would mess with the Aurora cam.



               
               

               
            

Legacy_Gruftlord

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               how's that for starters:
http://forum.bioware...nfo/?p=20153141

it's really quick and dirty, but it should get things started. for anything more there is actually Neverwinterinfo think.
               
               

               
            

Legacy_OldTimeRadio

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The biggest fear would be that any NWN:EE would be updated with modern 3d graphical features. i'm not sure anyone would want to risk investing in a NWN:EE while changing so little graphically so it does not break any custom content. I can see the benefit from adding multi core support, steam cloud integreation, gamespy replacement and the like. but i fear it would be bundled with bump mapping and physically based rendering.




I also used worry that an enhanced edition might potentially cause problems for existing custom content but, based on what I know now, I can practically guarantee it would be impossible for a situation like that to come to pass.  So, the scenario of an EE "breaking" existing custom content isn't even an issue.


 


The parts of the game that a (basic) graphics engine update would touch would have very little to do with how custom content is made but a lot to do with how it's expressed, visually.  So, for instance, in a hypothetical "typical" NWN:EE, it's very likely that all the creature and tile models would be exactly the same as they are in the NWN:Diamond that people buy off GOG.com nowdays.  There might be _additional_ files (like bump maps or additional texture information) that would cause enhanced functionality to "kick in", but it would definitely not be a big change across the board.  


 


NWN already has functions inside of it to do bump mapping and rudimentary physically based rendering but, for the most part, these commands appear to have either been disabled in the renderer or do something but do it inefficiently.  As far as rudimentary PBR goes, some examples are the specular and shininess model settings and TXI commands like specularcolor, isspecularbumpmap and isdiffusebumpmap.  Even if these things were enabled, they're still pretty primitive.  We're talking specular stuff on a per-mesh level as opposed to having a specular map, but it's still stuff that's already in NWN.



               
               

               
            

Legacy_Gruftlord

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               nobody is going to make an EE version with an updated engine that adds stuff like modern PBR, and then doesn't update the models to make use of this. so yes, and updated engine will mean it is going to break custom content. it will simply be left behind and not be supported any more by the modern engine. I don't see how anyone would want to try to sell an EE with the old-school models, sorry.
               
               

               
            

Legacy_OldTimeRadio

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I'm not sure why you think that an NWN:EE couldn't be backwards compatible.  Existing models use one texture per mesh in a model.  Two if you have an environment map or a bump map.  An enhanced NWN would have support for more maps than that.  Additional maps could even be used to  define materials for PBR.  Those meshes with additional maps would be displayed with additional effects and those which still had the one texture would be displayed the same as they always have, same as in NWShader.  If they wanted to, they could certainly muck with the models but normal maps are going to be an easier way of adding detail and at a lot less expense.  


 


I suppose there is always the possibility that Beamdog could pick some method of enhancing the game which would slash and burn everything to the ground...but I don't find that likely or plausible.



               
               

               
            

Legacy_CoM Solaufein

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The only thing that would get me to play a NWN EE is that they put it on a modern gaming engine. Those graphics, especially the character graphics are fugly as hell.



               
               

               
            

Legacy_ShadowM

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The only thing that would get me to play a NWN EE is that they put it on a modern gaming engine. Those graphics, especially the character graphics are fugly as hell.




Holy cow no, we not going from nwn to witcher 3 here. We more like going from nwn1 to divinity original sin 1 or 2 graphics(or some better example). We do not need the latest graphic engine to do that. We have to have a balance between graphic that still can handle PW set up of 62 people etc.. As for breaking current custom content, the question not will it, but by how much and will we get free ware support. Like plugins for blender or other free modeling/animation/ visual effects tools. If we get support to update the content then the community will get it done. Like you, but opposite I would not buy a nwn:EE if it ran on a modern graphics engine that took away all the flexibility we have with the current one.



               
               

               
            

Legacy_henesua

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No need to get riled up about it. People who can't tell the difference between art quality and render engine are not worth paying any attention to on this subject.



               
               

               
            

Legacy_kamal_

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They didn't use a new engine for BG:EE. They didn't use a new engine for BG2:EE. They won't use a new engine for a hypothetical NWN:EE. The EE's work well for them because they don't have to spend time and money re-creating, re-implementing and re-testing pretty much everything in a new engine.



               
               

               
            

Legacy_Lilura

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I don't want a new engine but it would be nice to make it more friendly on current gen OS/hardware.