A newbie here

[Legacy_Grani]

               

If I may, personally I don't see NWN2's companions as an improvement over NWN1.

It's true that many people were disappointed with how you could only control a single character in NWN, but that's because they expected the game to be a third Baldur's Gate. That's not the case.

 

I personally see non-controllable companions superior to a whole controllable gang and that's because of the fact that NWN is supposed to be an RPG game, not a tactical one. The point of RPG games is to BECOME your character, to role-play it. I hold to the belief that the ability to directly control more characters than one misses the point entirely.

               
               

               
            

[Legacy_MagicalMaster]

               

The point of RPG games is to BECOME your character, to role-play it. I hold to the belief that the ability to directly control more characters than one misses the point entirely.

 

This is one of the reasons I preferred the Mass Effect series to the Dragon Age series.  That said, I can understand people being frustrated with the inability to effectively communicate with/command the NPC companions when they're supposed to be as "complex" as they are in something like NWN (2)/Dragon Age (2).

 

From this thread, you can see that since D&D is a game of almost unlimited complexity, there are passionate opinions on every fine detail, but, really, none of that matters a jot when you're getting started..

 

True enough.

 

However, I see how this argument doesn't apply that strongly when we consider the patch's usefulness to a player and not a builder.

 

Exactly, especially for a new player.  For most campaigns the benefits will be extremely minor and the patch risks causing problems in some of those campaigns.  And the patch is irrelevant for online worlds since the world itself determines what happens.

 

You can easily give an NPC a Trident for the cool factor and then give him illegal bonuses to make up for Tridents being no good (which is what I do). It is of course possible, but more complicated, to do something similar for PCs.

 

Indeed.  Ditto if you want a whip wielding NPC, for example, can give them the stats/bonuses/gear to get the result you want.

               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Tchos]

               

Grani: I'm sure that's the common sentiment around here, and I have no interest in changing anyone's personal views on what a "true" RPG is.  I was providing useful information to someone who likes controllable companions.

               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Proleric]

               I have a lot time for both styles, but while BG/DA tactical control is great for winning hard fights, NWN1's fire-and-forget companions are maybe more realistic, especially in custom modules that allow bigger teams.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Grani]

               

Grani: I'm sure that's the common sentiment around here, and I have no interest in changing anyone's personal views on what a "true" RPG is.  I was providing useful information to someone who likes controllable companions.

 

Obviously, what I say is nothing more than my personal taste. Few would consider an RPG gem such as Baldur's Gate to NOT be an RPG because of more controllable characters. Still, to me BG is more of an "RPG simulation". You are a one-man-team, whereas every character should belong to a different player in D&D. I can't help but draw similarities to playing chess with yourself, though by no means am I saying that BG is a bad game.

               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Tchos]

               

I disagree, but I'm not going to argue about it.

               
               

               
            

[Legacy_rogueknight333]

               

It's not contradictory.  If you set it as I describe, it will behave exactly like as in BG.  That is simple and straightforward.  The fact that there are also other ways to set it does not make those BG-style settings complicated.  You can set it and forget it.

 

It is not exactly like BG. You do not have the ability to set formations for the party and lack some commands like BG's Guard Mode where you could set a party member to attack anyone in a predefined area but not move outside that area (or at least if does offer such features I was not able to find them). And to say that everything is simple after one has figured out what all the confusing options actually do and how to set them in a way that complements one's playstyle is rather like describing a riddle or puzzle as easy because it will be once one knows the answer, which is true in a sense but not what most people would mean by describing a riddle as easy.

 

...I personally see non-controllable companions superior to a whole controllable gang and that's because of the fact that NWN is supposed to be an RPG game, not a tactical one. The point of RPG games is to BECOME your character, to role-play it. I hold to the belief that the ability to directly control more characters than one misses the point entirely.

 

There are advantages both ways. In a module/RPG that strongly emphasizes actual role-playing or the use of non-combat skills, I think it generally makes more sense to control only a single character. If the emphasis is on intense tactical combat than it makes a lot more sense to be able to control everyone in the style of a war-gaming simulation. Of course in a typical war game one takes on the role of the commanding general, rather than one of the "grunts," so if one is in fact role-playing the latter it is certainly realistic, if occasionally frustrating, not to be able to control what everyone in the party is doing.

               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Tchos]

               

It is not exactly like BG. You do not have the ability to set formations for the party and lack some commands like BG's Guard Mode where you could set a party member to attack anyone in a predefined area but not move outside that area (or at least if does offer such features I was not able to find them). And to say that everything is simple after one has figured out what all the confusing options actually do and how to set them in a way that complements one's playstyle is rather like describing a riddle or puzzle as easy because it will be once one knows the answer, which is true in a sense but not what most people would mean by describing a riddle as easy.

 

Now you're arguing just to argue.  These are nothing like riddles, whose purpose is to figure them out alone, rather than information freely given in the bloody manual and all over the NWN2 forums, or from anyone online who plays it if you can't be bothered to look for those.  I'm sorry you find it so all-fired confusing and puzzling, or that you're so determined to do so.  Help is there for anyone who needs it.

 

Also, you should know very well that setting formations and guard mode aren't what I was talking about when I said it was exactly like BG -- I was referring to taking control of the companions, accessing inventory, and all of the other things I listed in my previous post.

 

By all means, go on your merry way believing that it's so hard to use and simultaneously overcomplicated and not having enough features.  For anyone else, if you're actually interested in playing and find anything about the companions confusing or difficult, after having read the manual and explored the in-game options, ask in the help subforum and I or any number of other helpful people will be glad to help.

               
               

               
            

[Legacy_icywind1980]

               

Yo guys! Perhaps this is why there aren't so many newbies on the forums anymore. We're all too busy arguing with each other about stupid little points, and we look like a miserable community (I myself am guilty of this too). Let's not derail this poor guys thread anymore.

 

@OP: Welcome to NWN and the forums. There's a lot of great players and great content. Need any help just ask.

               
               

               
            

[Legacy_whativa]

               

No problem! You guys feel free to comment. Im reading '>

               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Shadooow]

               

The thing is you have no certainty of this from one module to the next.  One module might have a spell override script, another might override a 2da file, another might make small adjustments to scripts.  If you have 1.69 then the only changes you would notice are the ones the module builder put in, but if you were using the CPP there is no assurance for what fixes you might lose.

I fail to see what this has to do with my patch. If module uses custom content AI, spell scripts or I dont know what and thus the fixes I made into these areas wont be active why is that a problem? This custom content might bring its own fixes and a module author should notify about that.

 

I dont see any difference between a player using vanilla 1.69 and playing module with EMS and player using CPP 1.71 playing module with EMS. In both cases player gets something else that what he expected/is used to.

 

I think that my patch is especially useful to all new players, who arent proficient with all NWN issues/bugs/exploits and knowhow in general and dont even want to learn it the hard way from start. Older players getting used on what was there might see that differently but thats how I proceeded when playing Gothic3 for a first time installing their community patch and I didnt regret it.

               
               

               
            

[Legacy_WhiZard]

               

I fail to see what this has to do with my patch. If module uses custom content AI, spell scripts or I dont know what and thus the fixes I made into these areas wont be active why is that a problem? This custom content might bring its own fixes and a module author should notify about that.

 

Correcting a previous statement is not the equivalent of identifying a problem.  The question at hand is what a new player can expect out of your patch when playing SP modules.  One can expect certain things out of a hak pack because the hak overrides the module, but since SP modules are made by and large from a 1.69 Toolset, it is difficult to guarantee what will and will not be present when the core resources that the module overrides are unknown to a new player.