A few questions about the Monk class in NWN 1.

[Legacy_MagicalMaster]

               

Without uncanny dodge, monks really have no advantage in the dexterity department over other classes.

 

Except unlike other classes monks cannot go strength and wear heavy armor to compensate for the lack of dex AC.  I don't see why you're fixated on uncanny dodge, you shouldn't be flat footed anyway.

 

In other words, monks are even more reliant on dex than a rogue is because a full plate rogue gone strength will have better AC.

 

So monks depend on Dex for AB, AC, Reflex saves, and potentially Stealth.  Going Str as a monk is a dangerous choice and very environment dependent.

 

But, as far as i can read nwnwiki, the blackguard's sneak attack is a lot weaker than rogue's - since your sneak attack only gains +1d6 every THREE levels as blackguard??

 

Also, how does the Assasssin's death attack (their version of sneak attacK) scale when leveling?

Is it +1d6 every TWO levels or every THREE levels for the Assassins?

 

Blackguards only gain 1d6 sneak per 3 levels but they also gain more AB, meaning their sneak attacks are more likely to actually HIT.

 

A level 18 rogue has 13 BAB and 9d6 sneak attack.  A level 8 rogue/10 blackguard has 16 BAB and 7d6 sneak attack.

 

Assassins get death attack every 2 levels just like a rogue.

               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Luminus]

               

A Monk shouldn't care for traps. They get Evasion at level 1 and Improved Evasion at level 9. They also get high Reflex saves and have Spell Resistance, as well as Immunity to Poison and Diseases.


For the OCs, I would recommend going STR based. You get a crap-ton of magic items and it's better to hit hard with each fist than going too defensive.  The Monk already is quite defensive.


For servers, I would go DEX-based and get a Shadowdancer level probably to get Hide in Plain Sight.


Don't forget, Grimgnaw was STR based and was destroying everything left and right with no problems. Imagine a better equipped Player Character.


I played a Monk in the NwN1 OC and went mostly STR based and I had no issues. I was playing on Hardcore/Very Difficult with Tony K's AI too.


Also going WIS-based in vanilla NwN1 is absolutely garbage. You won't be able to hit anything. But if you made an archer with Zen Archery, that's another story.

               
               

               
            

[Legacy_MagicalMaster]

               

Don't forget, Grimgnaw was STR based and was destroying everything left and right with no problems. Imagine a better equipped Player Character.

 

Which is only because the OC is insanely undertuned.  So like I said, very environment dependent.

               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Elhanan]

               

I did play a Monk/ Rogue for one mod series, for the Skills and versatility. This allowed Search as a class skill among others, which can be helpful in many environments. And it can be nice to be able to re-arm devices that cannot be shrugged away by Evasion and high ST's; an observation made when I kinda killed a Monk with traps on our campaign server (part of a quest; long story).

               
               

               
            

[Legacy_WhiZard]

               

I also disagree with a monk's lack of need for DEX.

 

I don't get what and who people are disagreeing with.

 

The following is the exact indexed question which I was answering

 

3. Aside from increasing the monk's AC and Reflexes, what else does Dexterity do for the monk class?

As far as i know both the Attack Roll and the Damage Roll is based on strength (without weapon finesse feat)... so, aside from AC, what else does Dexterity affect for the monk class?

 

In other words the OP is looking to see if there is some special feature with dexterity that a monk has that would not be part of the generic strength versus dexterity comparison.  I know he only mentioned AC and reflex, versus strength and damage and not other features like stealth that might also be part of a generic strength versus dexterity comparison, but for a monk there is no armor check penalty, making the point rather moot.

 

 

Except unlike other classes monks cannot go strength and wear heavy armor to compensate for the lack of dex AC.  I don't see why you're fixated on uncanny dodge, you shouldn't be flat footed anyway.

 

In other words, monks are even more reliant on dex than a rogue is because a full plate rogue gone strength will have better AC.

 

So monks depend on Dex for AB, AC, Reflex saves, and potentially Stealth.  Going Str as a monk is a dangerous choice and very environment dependent.

 

Yet the very things that the OP asked for me not to address in answering his question I am being accused of unfairly ignoring.  And full plate is not an issue (though a shield would be) because a monk with 14 dex, 14 Wis, and 20 levels can easily outdo the full plate base plus max dexterity.  Full plate by itself is not a reason why even a strength based  monk would lag behind AC-wise.  Even so, you are just arguing how strength lags, not how dexterity gives further benefits to the monk class than the normal conditions.

 

Why did the OP ask the question if he is ruling out the major benefits? Might be because he saw that dexterity was a monk's primary ability from a wiki article. Maybe he wanted a dexterity versus wisdom rationale. My reply adequately showed that there are no special considerations that give monks significantly more power than when giving dexterity to another class.  So far all I am seeing for responses to my post are people taking the post out of context so that they can argue with it.  If you are going to do that why not argue with the points that are wrong from the previous post, such as "I think that Stunning Fist and Quivering Palm can be used with kamas but I'm not sure".  Easy to say no to that.  I bring up that dexterity doesn't give much innately to the monk class once the usual strength versus dexterity reasons are dismissed, and I am accused of dismissing the benefits of AC in a reply where AC is specifically stated not to be considered.  Good luck arguing for argument's sake.

               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Bogdanov89]

               

All amazing replies, thank you very much ^^

 

Just to point out as the OP, yes i am aware that the "cloth wearing" monks rely heavily on AC and that Dex (and Wis) can significantly help increase the AC.

 

I just wanted to see was there some absolutely crucial benefit to Dexterity for Monks (aside from AC and obvious Dex-based skills).

 

Of course even more replies are always welcome, but no need to argue over semantics - i do understand that a monk should not have 6 Dexterity xD

               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Luminus]

               

Also with 14 Dex, Dodge, Mobility and the required skills, you can get 1 Shadowdancer level to be able to escape if you need to.


I once played Hordes of the Underdark solo with a STR based Monk/Assassin with a Katana and alternate "assassin stance" combat animations.


Totally a fun build based on Tatsumaru from Tenchu 2 but he kicked ass and still very very effective. He had no trouble taking down anything even when soloing.

               
               

               
            

[Legacy_MagicalMaster]

               

I just wanted to see was there some absolutely crucial benefit to Dexterity for Monks (aside from AC and obvious Dex-based skills).

 

They get AB as well with Weapon Finesse.  So both AB and AC while Str monks get AB and damage.  Most of the time the AC is far more valuable than the damage.