A few questions for the experienced NWN players :)

[Legacy_Shadooow]

               

Furthermore, the question was if there is going to be done anything with this matter on wiki. If you are saying it is a gray area that cannot be proved then neither of the explanation should be used - currently it suggest that its correct not to empower the variable, numeric durarion of the spells effects.

               
               

               
            

[Legacy_WhiZard]

               

 

Oh you persuaded me about that. But now you are not willing to use that argument about similar issue. The 50% more damage can be used for tentacles and suddenly its not what description meant. This is my entire point, that your explanations for different matters aren't consistent.

 

Where is my inconsistency.

 

I have stated that the 3.5 Evard's when empowered, deals (1d6 + 4) * 1.5  damage.

 

I have stated that the 3.0 Evard's when empowered has the total tentacles (with caster level) multiplied by 1.5.

 

I have noted that because the 1d6 base damage of the 3.0 Evard's was still in the spell description it was within the "grey area" to multiply the tentacle's base damage by 1.5.  I do not myself support this interpretation, but leave it as an open possibility.

 

Similarly the 2d10 rounds within regeneration might be multiplied by 1.5 if you feel so inclined, (still "grey area") with the net result of making the 3.0 spell take longer to heal a lost body part.

               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Shadooow]

               

Where is my inconsistency.

 

You have stated that empower is meant to affect also bonus to the damage coming from the caster level, because you haven't yet seen a instance in description, where the +1 per caster level behaves differently.

 

Fine, and I haven't seen an instance in description that would exclude the duration of the spell effect (such as Color spray or Stinking cloud).

 

In the caster level to the bonus issue youve said, that its therefore means that it should be included to the calculation.

In the spell effect duration, youve said that its therefore gray area and cannot be proofed.

 

This is the inconsistency I am talking about.

 

The FAQ says that the number of missiles in magic missile is not empowered because its not a variable numeric expression and suggest that if it would be then it would be empowered too.

 

The description for the feat lists what this feat is not affecting, and a non-exhaustive list of what this feat can affect. FAQ also states generally this:

 

"The list isn’t exhaustive—you can try to do anything you can imagine your character doing in the game world. The rules in this section cover the most common actions, and they can serve as a guide for figuring out what happens when you try something not in the rules."

 

 

My primary concern was the duration of the spell effects which nwn wiki states it is not a subject to the empowerment and marks NWN spells that does this to be incorrect.

 

 

Note that Im refering to the 3.5 spells descriptions/mechanic for this matter, not the NWN ones - to be clear and avoiding confusion.

               
               

               
            

[Legacy_WhiZard]

               

You are mixing two different issues:

 

1) What is a variable numeric value?

 

2) What variable numeric values are subject to being multiplied by 1.5 when empowered?

 

 

1) A variable numeric value is an entire expression for a quantity that is being calculated.  For example, the character channels positive energy that cures 1d8 points of damage +1 point per caster level (up to +5), means that 1d8 + 1 per caster level (caster level capped at five) represents a single numeric value.  For magic missile 1d4 + 1 is a variable numeric value.  One does not jump to the 1d4 see that it is a variable and then later proceed to the one and see that it is a constant and only multiply the 1d4, rather the entire 1d4 + 1 is multiplied.  The expectation from the empower feat description is that the sum total of all damage is multiplied by 1.5 all healing is multiplied by 1.5 and all targets is multiplied by 1.5 because this total is what DnD will commonly use as a numeric value within spells.

 

2) There are several variables that do not fit into any of the explicit categories for which one must or must not multiply the value by 1.5.  Duration, probability, creature statistics (e.g. 3.0 Evard's base damage), weapon buffs, etc. may be argued back and forth whenever a variable numeric value from them enters into the spell description.  Decisions made on these can vary, as few guidelines are ever given.  There are circumstances where empowering doesn't make sense (for example would empowering 3.0 harm leave the affected creature at (1d4) * 1.5 remaining hitpoints?), and other circumstances where a mixed blessing seems counter-intuitive (e.g. would empowering regenerate increase the time it would take to reform the body part (2d10 rounds) while at the same time provide more healing?).

               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Shadooow]

               

Yes this is the matter. Obviously some of the numeric, variable effects aren't supposed to be empowered, I didn't argued about that, the description is a guideline that should help with deciding the other unusual cases.

 

 

But specifically, what is the counterargument for not empowering the duration of the spell effects - like the stinking cloud then?

 

Evard tentacles, Bigbi's hands - the damage is an outcome of that object physical attack.

 

3.0 Harm, Regenerate - empowering would have counterintuitive effect

 

But what is the reason for the effect duration or the weapon buff (if some made up spell gave 1d4+1 enhancement bonus) shouldn't be empowered?

               
               

               
            

[Legacy_WhiZard]

               

Yes this is the matter. Obviously some of the numeric, variable effects aren't supposed to be empowered, I didn't argued about that, the description is a guideline that should help with deciding the other unusual cases.

 

 

But specifically, what is the counterargument for not empowering the duration of the spell effects - like the stinking cloud then?

 

Evard tentacles, Bigbi's hands - the damage is an outcome of that object physical attack.

 

3.0 Harm, Regenerate - empowering would have counterintuitive effect

 

But what is the reason for the effect duration or the weapon buff (if some made up spell gave 1d4+1 enhancement bonus) shouldn't be empowered?

 

I have seen these areas argued both ways.  The meaning to the "etc." that DnD used was probably "things of that ilk."  For example, if we can empower the number of targets, shouldn't we also the number of missiles?  If we can empower damage and healing shouldn't we also ability increases and decreases?  For the most part DnD seems to have left the remainder untested in a sort of "do what you will" philosophy.  I have seen probability empowered (not that I support it) with some rather nifty effects.  For example, with dismissal 3.0, there is a 20% chance (2 outcomes of  a d10) of sending the creature to a different plane than its own.  Empower that to 30% (1.5 * 20% which becomes 3 outcomes of a d10) and the spell can be a bit more manipulative.  Maximize that (100%) and you have a full guarantee of giving the creature an unseemly fate.  Not everyone tries to empower or maximize probability, and some are opposed to maximizing and empowering durations because of the overlapping with extend spell (notably though the variable durations within spells usually do not occur on the "Duration:" line but in the spell description proper, so another interpretation is to only allow extend spell to have influence over the "Duration:" line).  I would think that if any consensus would be made on empower and durations it must also be made as to its interrelationship with extend and durations.

 

As for 3.5 Evard's and Bigby, I don't interpret these as creatures, but as magical apparitions emulating creatures (which is why they cannot be attacked normally or damaged normally).  Empowered magic means a more powerful apparition.

               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Shadooow]

               

Empowering/maximizing probability is stupidity. Nobody with at least bit of sense would have do that. 25% is not d10 == 1-2 and its not even an effect of the spell.

 

Again, the duration of the spell has nothing to do with the duration of the effect. There is no overlapping with Extend spell because the spell duration is round/level for which the cloud remain in place. Extend spell does NOT affect the duration of the spell effects.

 

Rather be more clear.

 

There are two durations.

 

The duration of the spell (written in the Duration: line in the spell information box).

 

and

 

The duration of the spell effects (written in the description such as the cloud paralyzes victim for 1d6 rounds)

 

 

Now check the Extend spell description: "An extended spell lasts twice as long as normal. A spell with a duration of concentration, instantaneous, or permanent is not affected by this feat."

 

This is absolutely clear. It makes the spell last longer, the cloud in the case of stinking cloud. It doesnt states anything about spell effect duration AND given it mentions it excludes spells with instant duration (Color spray) that should give a good insight even for the most dull peoples.

 

The empower on the other hand says (in its NWN description - note this is missing in any DnD version) that it doesnt affect the duration of the spell. Which is the first case.

               
               

               
            

[Legacy_WhiZard]

               

But the other interpretation of extend spell is that if the spell does not have a duration of concentration, instantaneous, or permanent, than anything about the spell can be extended duration-wise (that is enduring spells create enduring effects).  This interpretation does lead to an overlap from the what empower can do at most and what extend can do at most.

 

As for probability I agree with you but for different reasons. Still, I am demonstrating the breadth of interpretation that empower spell has leant itself to due to the lack of clarification from DnD.

               
               

               
            

[Legacy_MagicalMaster]

               

Real life can really suck sometimes.

 

I wrote enough on the CPP, I stopped the edvertisement because I was told its embarrasing and nobody cares.

 

And what does this have to do with my question?  I asked you to sum up, in a few sentences, the main benefits of using your patch.  I could easily do that for CEP/Project Q/NWNX/NWNCX/NWNTX/etc.  Imagine I'm a new player and don't know much -- simply saying "It fixes a lot of bugs" doesn't tell me much because I don't know if the bugs being fixed are actually problematic.

 

Pretend that, hypothetically speaking, Prayer actually lasted for caster level + 1 rounds by accident -- fixing that bug is basically irrelevant.  It's not going to make a difference for anyone.

 

People want concrete major benefits for doing something like installing your patch -- you don't need to list everything, you just have to list some big stuff to make them think "Yeah, it would definitely be worth it to install Shadow's patch."

 

Of course, then there are peoples like you who do believe that they are better fixing everything themselves when they find that issue. Or that they already have everything and don't need anything from CPP at all.

 

When did I indicate I thought I was better at fixing everything myself?  And the entire reason I asked my question was that I DON'T assume I have everything I need -- hence why I asked for a summary of the benefits your patch gives!

 

Still, due to the fact that I still believe the dice/only empower behavior is more balanced and preffered, I will add a new module switch that enforces it without need to recompile spellscripts and adding them into module/override/hak. That way I think the both camps will be satisfied.

 

Appreciated.

 

P.S. I'd say Empowered Evard's would have the same number of tentacles that do 1.5 times normal damage.  In other words, you're conjuring Empowered versions of the tentacles -- just like you would summon an Empowered version of a Bigby hand or Empowered version of Magic Missiles/IGMS.  All four are the creation of a spell.  Yes, the tentacles have to make an attack to deal damage -- but Bigby also has an attack and something like Inflict Wounds has an attack as well and essentially in the same category for practical purposes.

 

It's silly that you can Empower/Maximize Undeath to Death but presumably that's because the spell is already (theoretically) fatal and thus the only way to Empower/Maximize the effect is to make it affect more enemies.

               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Omnifarious']

               

This is totally unrelated but here it goes 

 

 

 

 

do you know of a script that will reset variables on a player charachter even after a server crashes heres what i got in my OnClientEnter Event script under module properties im trying to make quest updates stay on the PC even after a reset so far it works if a players logs out and comes back in but not when i reset the server when i reset all quest progress is lost PLEASE HELP WITH SUGAR ON TOP lol

 

 

// Place in OnClientEnter

// Will store each ability score as:

// ABILITY_0 = STRENGTH

// ABILITY_1 = DEXTERITY

// ABILITY_2 = CONSTITUTION

// ABILITY_3 = INTELLIGENCE

// ABILITY_4 = WISDOM

// ABILITY_5 = CHARISMA

void main()

{

    object oPC = GetEnteringObject();

    if(!GetIsPC(oPC)) return;

    int i,iAb;

    for(i=0; i<6; i++)

        {

        iAb = GetAbilityScore(oPC,i);

        SetCampaignInt("STATS","ABILITY_"+IntToString(i),iAb,oPC);

        }

 

 

 

{

    object oPC = GetEnteringObject();

    if(!GetIsPC(oPC))return;

    int i,iQuest;

    for(i=1; i<6; i++)

        {

        iQuest = GetCampaignInt("QUEST_STATUS","QUEST_1"+IntToString(i),oPC);

        SetLocalInt(oPC,"QUEST_1"+IntToString(i),iQuest);

 

 

 

 

        }

 

{

 

object oPC = GetEnteringObject();

 

if (!GetIsPC(oPC)) return;

 

int nInt;

nInt = GetGold(oPC);

 

SetLocalInt(oPC, "PlayerGold", nInt);

 

nInt = GetHitDice(oPC);

 

SetLocalInt(oPC, "PlayerLevel", nInt);

 

}

}

}