Monk build to beat OC/HoU/SoU ?

[Legacy_Varlak]

                I'm building 2 monk one will be unarmed and one will go with kamas. I've made a few google search but couldn't find what I realy want just general info. I never went pass level 14 in the OC so I'm not realy confortable hehe.

As for dex vs str I'm not sure either. If I get it right unarmed want to go DEX because fewer attack get a weaker bonus from str anyway and kama prefer str to get the bonus on the whole 10 attack ?


Anyway tanks to anyone who may help me.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Shadooow]

               most "builds" you find on net are not primarily designed for playing OC, I wont give you full build but advices so you should be able to make your own

- if you are intent to play without henchman, you should go to the DEXterity, if you will play with henchman then it doesnt matter, you will be able to play with both styles
- consider multiclass fighter level for free feats and BAB, for example taking figher at lvl 5 gives you one more attack when if you would take monk you would get this extra attack 1 level later
- consider multiclass cleric as thats the best class to combine with monk due to his spells, 9cleric levels are enough for all official campaigns
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Varlak]

               How many fighter level do I need to get the extra attack ?
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Shadooow]

               

Varlak wrote...

How many fighter level do I need to get the extra attack ?

thats relative, for a lvl 20 build you need BAB of 16 to get maximum attacks per round however you wont reach lvl 20 in OC

I suggest to take 1fighter at lvl 5 (which gives you extra feat and second monk attack one level earlier) and then continue as a monk until you get all you want from monk or until you will want to get more free feats from fighter level.

You could get third monk's attack by one level earlier if you would take all four fighter levels consecutive, but advantage of that is not so big IMO. I would personally get second fighter at lvl 6 for another feat and then continued with monk to the total of 10 monk levels (that gives nice speed, improved knockdown for free, +2AC, and improved evasion)

if you would consider adding cleric to the build keep in mind that monk/cleric levels must be a multiples of 4 otherwise you would lose BAB thus attacks per round.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par ShaDoOoW, 03 avril 2012 - 07:15 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_WebShaman]

               Well...not to make waves here, but you can basically beat the OCs with just about any build, really.  I mean...I did it with a pure Monk build.  Nothing really special here - though I would suggest going the Kama route, for somewhat obvious reasons in HotU.

Just do not choose the spellcasting Henchies.  Bleh.  Blasted AI.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Varlak]

               

ShaDoOoW wrote...
if you would consider adding cleric to the build keep in mind that monk/cleric levels must be a multiples of 4 otherwise you would lose BAB thus attacks per round.

You mean like if monk4 then cleric 1, monk8 cleric2 etc or that both monk and cleric must be a multiple of 4 so I could go monk12 and cleric16 ?

Also how can I know the formula for my bab and ab ? When you go pure its easy you just look at the chart but when your mixing class every level or so I don,t know how to get it
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Shadooow]

               

Varlak wrote...

ShaDoOoW wrote...
if you would consider adding cleric to the build keep in mind that monk/cleric levels must be a multiples of 4 otherwise you would lose BAB thus attacks per round.

You mean like if monk4 then cleric 1, monk8 cleric2 etc or that both monk and cleric must be a multiple of 4 so I could go monk12 and cleric16 ?

Also how can I know the formula for my bab and ab ? When you go pure its easy you just look at the chart but when your mixing class every level or so I don,t know how to get it

both classes must be divided by 4, your second example is correct, if you want also max attack you must combine it like this: 8monk 4figher 8 cleric or 12/4/4 , so it is really question if the one more attack reached at lvl 20 is worth it as it would be more advantaging to take 10monk / 2fighter /6 cleric for OC.

As WebShaman said, you can beat OC with almost anything, though build like this makes it much more easier to you.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Mystery X]

               

Varlak wrote...

Also how can I know the formula for my bab and ab ? When you go pure its easy you just look at the chart but when your mixing class every level or so I don,t know how to get it

In most cases, just add the BAB from each class.

So if you have Monk 4 / Cleric 4, look at the charts:

4th level Monk has +3
4th level Cleric has +3
So your Monk 4 / Cleric 4 has +6.

This is where you can note the difference of grouping as well.  If your level 2 character is Monk 1 / Cleric 1, then your character has +0 BAB.  If your level 2 character is Monk 2 (or Cleric 2), you have +1 BAB.

Monk or Cleric levels 1, 5, 9, 13, and 17 have no BAB gain.  To maximize your BAB early, put off taking one of those levels with no BAB gain until you have no choice but to take one.  After your first four levels of Monk, for example, your next choice is either Monk 5 or Cleric 1- both come with no BAB gain.  That's why you want to group the levels in 4s in terms of advancement, if possible.  It is not always possible depending on other considerations, such as advancement in class-specific skills or choosing class-specific feats at the right character level.

It gets trickier when you are figuring out where your extra attacks come, and you have a Monk.

For every situation but an unarmed Monk, your extra attacks come at +6 BAB (for +6/+1 attacks), +11 BAB (for +11/+6/+1 attacks), and +16 BAB (for +16/+11/+6/+1).

If you have any Monk levels and are fighting unarmed or with kamas, you add up your total BAB based on all classes, but look at the Monk unarmed chart to figure out extra attacks come at what BAB.  Your extra attacks actually come based on total BAB and not class level.

At level 21+, you get +1 BAB regardless of class, while your extra attacks never advance beyond what they were based on your level 20 BAB.  So after level 20, you don't need to group classes in 4s anymore for BAB purposes.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Knight_Shield]

               I will give you a build but not all details.

4 BG/35Monk/1Rogue
Dex build
make sure you have 14 CHA
unarmed;)
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Knight_Shield, 04 avril 2012 - 11:30 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Varlak]

                K I'll try that 1BG/4rogue/35monk build for my unarmed monk.

But as for going kama many seems to favor rogue level and some even get more rog levels then monk. Beside UMD and sneak attack their is any reason for that choice ?
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Shadooow]

               there are not so many reason to go more than 10 monk levels especially with kamas

after tenth monk level there are only minor bonuses and you need too many levels to get them

yea sure, monk get +1ac each 5levels, his unarmed damage still improves and he gain SR and later immunity to mind spells

however for OC, you will have enough AC if you are DEX based, you find better kamas than gloves, and you also find many items with SR and mind spells immunity. Or if you combine your monk with cleric, you get improved invisibility as well, immunity to not only mind spells but everything else and you can boost your kama with darkfire and greater magic weapon. Basically pure monks are rare and only to be found for special purpose like:
- highest SR possible to be immune to spellcasters
- high stunning fist DC
- mind spell immunity in environment where threathen dispells and where this immunity isnt available on items

pure monk fits more to the strenght based-unarmed build which needs every bonus AC he might get and also need biggest fist damage, but again, you can beat OC with almost anything (considering that you will play on "normal" not hardcore and very difficult is almost unplayable due to the fact that monsters gives 200% dmg to PC which does not make game harder only annoying). I would advice you to take build that you will enjoy roleplaying. I mean for example the blackquard needs to be evil, so its probably not a great choice if you dont enjoy playing evil badasses. (Of course still you can play like paladin even with such character but well...)
               
               

               

                     Modifié par ShaDoOoW, 04 avril 2012 - 04:17 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Mystery X]

               There is no need to play a build based on 40 levels if you are just playing the official campaigns.

The OC goes level 1 - 18 (approximately)
SotU goes level 1 - 15 (approximately)
HotU goes level 15-27 (approximately)

You don't want to use builds that are set up to peak at levels higher than you will actually play.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_WhiZard]

               

WebShaman wrote...

Well...not to make waves here, but you can basically beat the OCs with just about any build, really.  I mean...I did it with a pure Monk build.  Nothing really special here - though I would suggest going the Kama route, for somewhat obvious reasons in HotU.

Just do not choose the spellcasting Henchies.  Bleh.  Blasted AI.

I have taken a strength based monk right through HotU fighting unarmed and only looting to get gear (and no upgrading).  It was more than quite doable, even without any henchman.  I will admit that I mght have been a bit more powerful if I had taken the kama route but 1d20 base damage (unarmed) with DR penetration from looted gloves is not that bad as far as weapons go.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Empyre65]

               After HotU, play the Sands of Fate series, and you will go all the way to level 40. I just played a DEX-based dual-wielding kama monk and breezed through it.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_HipMaestro]

               

Mystery X wrote...

There is no need to play a build based on 40 levels if you are just playing the official campaigns.

The OC goes level 1 - 18 (approximately)
SotU goes level 1 - 15 (approximately)
HotU goes level 15-27 (approximately)

You don't want to use builds that are set up to peak at levels higher than you will actually play.

OP: Use this schedule which is pretty much a restatement of what is listed in the game readme files.

Beware of trying to adapt any Level 40 build to use in the campaigns because they NEVER take into account skill dumping thresholds to make the campaigns most enjoyable and effective.  The first one that comes to mind is UMD dumps which, if done at the optimum time will allow a toon to use equipment it wouldn't be able to use otherwise.  There is also a matter of meeting the prereqs for prestigue classes which, in some Level 40 optimal builds will delay their introduction very late in the build schedule, sometimes too late to be of much use in the abbreviated campaigns.

My best suggestion is to examine some ECB (Level 40) monk-focused builds using the WoG search engine read the discussions to understand the basic mechanics of building that we all face and then try to hash out your own version for the level ranges listed above.  Once you have made a stab at it, you can display either here on the BSN forum or join the new ECB and post a request there (my sig has link) for suggestions to improve it or perhaps just point out elements that you may not be aware of.  (BTW, an Excel build calculator by Kamiryn can be found here if you have MSOffice installed on your machine.  Very, very handy and quick to use.)

Consider the BioWare campaigns as a learning experience where you can try out your own ideas and don't get too caught up in perfecting your build.  In worst case scenario, you can always delevel/relevel using the console any time to correct some of your build mistakes rather than starting all over from scratch.  Also, if you want to integrate roleplay aspects into your character design, ,most builds will not reflect those biases.  You must decide.

To summarize: Have fun building your OWN characters!
               
               

               

                     Modifié par HipMaestro, 06 avril 2012 - 01:59 .