Author Topic: Lookitthat: a new Godwin's law evolving before our eyes.  (Read 1132 times)

Legacy_WebShaman

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Lookitthat: a new Godwin's law evolving before our eyes.
« Reply #45 on: September 17, 2011, 06:05:56 am »


               I think that the best case to be made regarding the Console Commands part of NWN is that Bioware made them as default available in SP play, but that they are DISABLED for Players in MP play.

This is obviously a conscious decision on behalf of Bioware.  They deliberately allowed for Console Commands to be used in SP Play.

And I, for one, agree with it completely.  It allows for one to relatively easily get past "bugs", especially showstoppers (and such console commands were given out by Bioware as temp solutions to showstopping bugs during the early days of NWN...).

So I think the opposite case is very damning here - that Bioware deliberately allowed for Console Commands in SP play, and I would even go so far as to say that they are ok with it's use, especially seeing as they themselves suggested such to be used (and this in the OCs!!)!
               
               

               
            

Legacy__six

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Lookitthat: a new Godwin's law evolving before our eyes.
« Reply #46 on: September 17, 2011, 12:49:19 pm »


               

WebShaman wrote...

1+1=2 is true


As is 1+1=10. I think Kail himself pointed that out, and here you have a microcosm for the entire situation.

But whatever. Personally, I'm happy as long as the whole topic is being argued here and not in other threads where it doesn't have a place. That way I can save on reading time when browsing peoples questions that may or not have bearing on it.
               
               

               


                     Modifié par _six, 17 septembre 2011 - 11:50 .
                     
                  


            

Legacy_Shadooow

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Lookitthat: a new Godwin's law evolving before our eyes.
« Reply #47 on: September 17, 2011, 01:08:24 pm »


               Time to continue.':wizard:'

WebShaman wrote...

Also, you say "wrong.  Never brough an intent to be a fact" - but stated "The game (in NWN context its OCs modules) creator  havent intended a player to use god mode to be able to finish it."

You state this as a fact, you do realize this, right?

You are making a STATEMENT.  You state it as if it is absolutely true (you do not allow for any other outcome or consideration in your statement).

So yes, you did bring an intent to be a fact.  It doesn't MATTER if you
intended for it to be brought out like that or not - you did it.

Since when is then statement a fact? Im not native english speaker but in my country a generic sentense that ends with [dot] is not an fact unless you add wording "this is fact" into that sentence. But it even doesnt matter. Why dont you stop hairsplitting and bring something more usefull?

So how do you know what the GAME CREATOR (in NWN OCs creator, which actually is a number of individuals, whole teams were involved, so it would be CREATORS here) intended?

Do you know them all personally?  Did you ask EACH AND EVERY ONE OF THEM THIS?  "Was it your intent that someone be able to use Godmode in the OCs?"

Not needed, there is also a thing like common sense after all. So yes, Im pretty sure I know what designers of OC and NWN itself intented. My unofficial patch is exactly what I think they would do if they would continue patching NWN. While Kail and several CEP2 members think that this patch is simply "my house rules modification" I have more peoples that believe in what I did. I dont know if you are scripter but if you were you would know that inside scripts there are comments of the peoples who did them explaining why they did it and when + the code itself can explain lots of things.

Did you ever consider that perhaps one (or more) might have had the thought that perhaps someone might want to make changes to the OCs for their own personal enjoyment and thus suggested that allowing for Godmode via the Console would be good for this purpose?

For example, for debugging their changes to the OCs?

Yes absolutely, I agree with you and btw congratulations you just sucesfully guessed an designers intent. At least I agree with you but it makes sense, doesnt it? But it doesnt disprove my guess which explained how OC was meant to be. Your guess explains what console commands meant to be. And these two statements doesnt exlude themselves. Neither your explains why cheating isnt possible.
               
               

               
            

Legacy_Kail Pendragon

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Lookitthat: a new Godwin's law evolving before our eyes.
« Reply #48 on: September 17, 2011, 01:42:52 pm »


               
Quote
ShaDoOoW wrote...

Time to continue.':wizard:'
Quote
WebShaman wrote...

Also, you say "wrong.  Never brough an intent to be a fact" - but stated "The game (in NWN context its OCs modules) creator  havent intended a player to use god mode to be able to finish it."

You state this as a fact, you do realize this, right?

You are making a STATEMENT.  You state it as if it is absolutely true (you do not allow for any other outcome or consideration in your statement).

So yes, you did bring an intent to be a fact.  It doesn't MATTER if you
intended for it to be brought out like that or not - you did it.

Since when is then statement a fact? Im not native english speaker
Useless excuse.

Quote
but in my country a generic sentense that ends with [dot] is not an fact unless you add wording "this is fact" into that sentence.
I can't speak about the way it works in your country, but it seems rather ludicrous and I'm not definitely gonna trust you on that. You stated something without qualifying it in any way whatsoever as personal opinion, so your statement has all the connotations of a statement of fact. And  afact it is not, but rather a simple conjecture.

Quote
But it even doesnt matter. Why dont you stop hairsplitting and bring something more usefull?
Why don' tyou start making an argument? Oh I forgot, you can't. You are only left with wild conjectures and unfounded statements.

Quote
Quote
So how do you know what the GAME CREATOR (in NWN OCs creator, which actually is a number of individuals, whole teams were involved, so it would be CREATORS here) intended?

Do you know them all personally?  Did you ask EACH AND EVERY ONE OF THEM THIS?  "Was it your intent that someone be able to use Godmode in the OCs?"
Not needed, there is also a thing like common sense after all.
Total and utter BS. Your conjectures have no value whatsoever. You have yet to learn the difference bnetween a conjecture and a proven fact, same as you have to learn the difference between a modification to a wad game feature and a fix. The story and the lack of intelligence of the matter at hand repeats itself. Congrats for not following Lincoln's advice!

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So yes, Im pretty sure I know what designers of OC and NWN itself intented.
And pretty sure has no value as fact. SO you have no facts but just conjectures. Which means, you have nothing in your hands.

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My unofficial patch is exactly what I think they would do if they would continue patching NWN.
What you think, not what they would have done cause you have no way tof knowing that.

Quote
While Kail and several CEP2 members think that this patch is simply "my house rules modification"
I don' tthink it is your own modification, it's a fact it's simply your own modifications .
Quote
I have more peoples that believe in what I did.
So you are stating that you have more people believing that  what you did is what the developers themselves would have done given the opportunity rather than knowing it's simply your own modifications? Where are the figures of that? Oh, you have no figures, so once more only unfounded claims and wild conjectures. I see a pattern here.

Quote
I dont know if you are scripter but if you were you would know that inside scripts there are comments of the peoples who did them explaining why they did it and when + the code itself can explain lots of things.
Which says nothing about what they would have done in the future. I remind you that NWN as is has been approved by WotC and as such in lack of evidence to the contrary everything is wad. I wonder whether this time you'll get thi ssimple fact.


Quote
Quote
Did you ever consider that perhaps one (or more) might have had the thought that perhaps someone might want to make changes to the OCs for their own personal enjoyment and thus suggested that allowing for Godmode via the Console would be good for this purpose?

For example, for debugging their changes to the OCs?

Yes absolutely, I agree with you and btw congratulations you just sucesfully guessed an designers intent.
You can't congratulate him in any way, cause you have no way to know the designers' intent. You have only your wild conjectures. You know conjectures, things you make up in your (delusional) mind which have no basis in the real world.

Quote
At least I agree with you but it makes sense, doesnt it? But it doesnt disprove my guess which explained how OC was meant to be. Your guess explains what console commands meant to be. And these two statements doesnt exlude themselves. Neither your explains why cheating isnt possible.
That cheating is not possible in SP is evident to any reasoning mind not suffering from serious issues from the definition of cheatng in common english. That's why no explanation is needed. And since you are no native speaker, you'd better educate yourself on what to cheat/cheating means. And follow Lincoln's advice too.
               
               

               


                     Modifié par Kail Pendragon, 17 septembre 2011 - 01:15 .
                     
                  


            

Legacy_WebShaman

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Lookitthat: a new Godwin's law evolving before our eyes.
« Reply #49 on: September 17, 2011, 02:17:41 pm »


               *shrugs*

Well, I will respond when there is something to respond to, I guess.