Understanding gear, stats, build and surviving?

[Legacy_Peteed]

               So yeah if you wanna make a few builds for me Lowlander i'd really appreciate it '>

As I said those 4 things were for 4 different character ideas/characters.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Guest_Lowlander_*]

               I won't do all 4. I won't touch the Shifter. I simply don't have any experience with those, I will leave that to someone else.

Here is my interpretation of the "staff" fighter (and your dual wield template as well).

In NWN,  Fighters use staffs that have metal ends for more damage.  So the "staff" is a Dire Mace:
http://nwn.wikia.com/wiki/Dire_mace

Since this is also counts as a dual wielded weapon and requires the dual wield feats, this is also your dual wield  fighter (strength based) model. Simply replace "Dire Mace" with another weapon.

Dire Mace is something of stylistic choice. It has the advantage of a full size weapon in the off hand without penalites. But it also limits the benefits you could get from totally different second weapon.

My choice would either be Katana or Bastard Sword. Both do 1-10 damage and both are very cool looking weapons. Then you use whatever you want in your off hand. Preferably somehting light to not incur more penalties.

Bear in mind that you off hand doesn't double your attacks, you only get 1 off hand attach when you might have 4 first hand attacks. When you get improved two weapon fighting you get 2 off hand and that is it. Also your off hand only gets half strenght bonus to damage.  So your off hand can benefit you more by extra abilities of your weapons. Say you have a Superb Katana in your main, if you find a short sword of speed, use that in your off hand, you benefit more from the haste than off hand attacks.  Anyway those are some things to consider when choosing your weapons to specialize in for dual wield.

Choosing Katana/Bastard/Longsword as your #1 allows you to:
Choose the best of small off hand weapons for their benefits.
Pull out a shield when you are in a bind to dramatically boost your AC.
Dual wield Katana/Bastard/Longswords when you are feeling silly and facing weak oppononents.

Other features of the build.
Rogue skills are quite robust. You can have full searching/lock picking/trap disarming/ UMD/Tumble and a couple of others. Basically almost all the needed skills for adventuring.

Weapon focus at level 3 so you find more weapons of your type.

CoT as third class, mainly to boost saving throws (excellent Fortitude,Reflex, Average Will).

Tons of feats.


Rogue(4), Fighter(6), Champion of Torm(, Human

STR: 16 (20)
DEX: 15
CON: 14
WIS: 8
INT: 14
CHA: 8

01: Rogue(1): Ambidexterity, Two-Weapon Fighting
02: Fighter(1): Weapon Proficiency Exotic
03: Fighter(2): Toughness, Weapon Focus: Dire Mace
04: Fighter(3): STR+1, (STR=17)
05: Fighter(4): Weapon Specialization: Dire Mace
06: Fighter(5): Power Attack
07: Fighter(6): Cleave
08: Rogue(2): STR+1, {Evasion}, (STR=18)
09: Champion of Torm(1): Iron Will
10: Champion of Torm(2): Improved Two-Weapon Fighting
11: Champion of Torm(3): {Smite Evil}
12: Champion of Torm(4): STR+1, Blind Fight, Improved Critical: Dire Mace, (STR=19)
13: Rogue(3): {Uncanny Dodge I}
14: Champion of Torm(5)
15: Champion of Torm(6): Knockdown, Great Cleave
16: Champion of Torm(7): STR+1, (STR=20)
17: Champion of Torm(: Improved Knockdown
18: Rogue(4): Resist Energy: Cold

Max Hitpoints: 218
Saving Throws (Fortitude/Will/Reflex): 18/10/18

Skillpoints: 147

Disable Trap 20(22), Listen 20(19), Open Lock 20(22), Persuade 20(19), Pick Pocket 6(, Search 20(22), Tumble 20(22), UMD 21(20)
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Guest_Lowlander_*]

               Just in case you insist on Quaterstaff. I combined it with your stealthy rogue/fighter, oh and he is a weapon master too. '>

Seriously though, the Quarterstaff, is a serioulsy useless weapon. Replace with Greatsword and this is a usable build, strike from steath with the triple threat of Two-handed weapon(if not quaterstaff),  extended WM criticals and sneak attack.

Weaknesses: Feat starved as is normal for weapon masters and weak saves (again pretty normal from a WM).

But you can slug it out pretty good toe to toe with good HPs and Big weapons, great crticals. You have full stealth, full trap disarming and full trap setting.  You have Stealthy Feat to overcome chain shirt armor you will use for better defence with lower dex.

Rogue(6), Fighter(5), Weapon Master(7)

STR: 16 (20)
DEX: 15
CON: 14
WIS: 8
INT: 14
CHA: 8

01: Rogue(1): Mobility, Dodge
02: Fighter(1): Expertise
03: Fighter(2): Toughness, Weapon Focus: Quarterstaff
04: Fighter(3): STR+1, (STR=17)
05: Fighter(4): Spring Attack
06: Rogue(2): Whirlwind Attack, {Evasion}
07: Weapon Master(1): Weapon of Choice: Quarterstaff
08: Weapon Master(2): STR+1, (STR=18)
09: Weapon Master(3): Improved Critical: Quarterstaff
10: Rogue(3): {Uncanny Dodge I}
11: Weapon Master(4)
12: Weapon Master(5): STR+1, Stealthy, (STR=19)
13: Weapon Master(6)
14: Weapon Master(7)
15: Fighter(5): Weapon Specialization: Quarterstaff
16: Rogue(4): STR+1, (STR=20)
17: Rogue(5)
18: Rogue(6): Iron Will


Max Hitpoints: 210
Skillpoints: 159
Saving Throws (Fortitude/Will/Reflex): 10/6/13


Disable Trap 21(25), Hide 21(25), Intimidate 4(3), Move Silently 21(25), Open Lock 15(17), Search 15(17), Set Trap 21(25), Tumble 20(22), UMD 21(20)
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Peteed]

                Lowlander the builds you gaave are a little confusing to me and so are some of the descriptions '>

Disable Trap 20(22), Listen 20(19), Open Lock 20(22), Persuade 20(19), Pick Pocket 6(, Search 20(22), Tumble 20(22), UMD 21(20)

Ok this just makes me go huh? no idea what the numbers in brackets mean compared to the numbers not in brackets. Also since its multi classing I have no idea when to put skill points into the skills cause on non rogue levelup levels the skills are mostly cross class and cost alot more and you never gave a break down of what level to do the skill points.

Didn't expect a staff using fighter really I was thinking staff would be more a druid type till you posted the build xD

The explanation of how the dire mace works has me a little confused as to if its considered dual weilding or using a 2h.

The explanations of how to modify the builds is a little confusing but I think I should be able to work out the modification myself anyway at least a little.

Main reason I was asking for the dual weild longswords before was that I hate a character looking lopsided if you know what I mean? non symetrical characters make me wince but I also have this thing where I hate short weapons looks like daggers and such though idk why and I don't like 2h much either .
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Guest_Lowlander_*]

               Numbers in brackets are the modified values. +2 for dexterity on opening locks for instance.

Never take any skills cross class. You only take them on rogue levels. You can save points for later levels.

Dire mace is considered dual wielding. There are tons of dual weapons in the official campaign even if you don't focus in them.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Peteed]

               Ahh ok I stuffed up then xD was taking em cross class cause I figured not keeping em maxed was very bad '>

Do I want that exotic weapon proficiency no matter what for the options it opens up? Or if I plan to use say a longsword and a short sword should I ditch it for something else?

Katana or Bastard Sword are really just the same weapon with a different skin from the looks xD I assume Katana's being so small tend to look alot more plain than Bastard Swords.

So my weapon focus and all the weapon specific stuff should all be my main hand and not get special stuff for my offhand weapon type right?

What type of armour should I wear? Theres just so many to choose from and with stuff like Half Plate and Full Plate and Studded Leather and all that I get lost working out whats better. Is it purely the AC number when it comes to armour? The heavier stuff seems to have no/next to no AC bonus from Dex on it and so unless you have almost no Dex I can't see any point to the heavy armour.

Also the dire mace build you made me does it have left over skill points at all or not?

Sorry for asking so much '>
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Peteed, 20 avril 2011 - 10:35 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Guest_Lowlander_*]

               With the Fighter/Rogue/CoT you have a massive supply of Feats. I would definitely include exotic so you can use just about any weapon you come across.  

You seem quite interested in what different styles look like. This way you can try them all and be quite effective at all of them.  What you focus on only gives you +1 to hit. That in no way locks you in. If you find a weapon clearly better than what you are focused in, use it.

Exotic lets you wield: Katanas, Bastard Swords, Dire Mace, Dual bladed sword, Kukri (offhand with good threat) and a bunch of others. With exotic you can pick up and use nearly anything, without it these will just be "red" and unusable.

Armor:
This is a Strength fighter. You should aim to wear Full Plate eventually. But remember, don't buy it. Just use the best you find. Equip what you find and check which one gives you the best AC. Though you might sometime wear armor that had a good special ability even if it were a bit lower AC, but that is a judgment call. It might have regeneration so you might pass up better AC armor for a while...  Experiment.

Skill points in the Dire Mace Build: I used them all, but you don't need too.
Total Skillpoints: 147


Open Lock: 20 - Doesn't need to be this high, start slowing down after it gets to about 12, gear starts to compensate more.
Disable Trap: 20 -  Same Doesn't really need to be this high, gear compensates more and more.
Persuade: 20 - Same, Doesn't need to be anywhere near this high/
Pick Pocket: 6 - very low because I never use it unless a quest forces me to, then I gear up, potion up.
Search: 20 - I like to keep it high (but doesn't need be this high) to spot traps, so I don't step on them.
Tumble: 20  - Maxed on specified Rogue levels - boosts AC 
UMD: 21 - Maxed so I can use any magic item I find, even ones for "evil" or mages etc...

You have plenty of options to rework the skill points these were just examples.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Lowlander, 20 avril 2011 - 03:43 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Peteed]

               So by the looks of it the main thing I lock myself into weaponwise is dual weild since I took so many things in it.

One thing that I find odd is no weapon speeds listed and I would of thought a Bastard sword would take longer to swing than say a dagger cause of the weight/wind resistance/size.

I tried making a druid the other day in OC and when I went to the room for my final lesson at academy on they said put spells in spell book and heal a guy. What ended up happening was the skele for target practice in room made game not let me rest so I had to go all the way back and zone into the first room before I could rest lol.
That thing about not resting when enemys are in the same zone as you even miles off is just stupid when it goes to those lengths.

Oh what weapon for range would be best?
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Peteed, 20 avril 2011 - 05:29 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Guest_Lowlander_*]

               You aren't locked in to dual wielding, but if you didn't plan to do it, then you could use the feats for something else. But that build has so many feats it barely matters.

I prefer Longbows for range weapons, decent damage, good fire rate (scales with your level, unlike crossbows). Composite with "mighty" property let that much of your strength be added to arrow damage. But Range weapons overall kind of suck in NWN. They are pretty weak compared to just hitting it with a sword.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Guest_Lowlander_*]

               Follow up on what I actually ended up playing the OC. Which I hadn't played in at least 5 years. But I got interested again...

I started out with the Fighter/Rogue/CoT build above but I really didn't like dual wielding so I gave it a respin with more Rogue Levels and made him into an effective Stealth killer/greatsword fighter.

I played the OC to the end and finished at level 17. Which I think is a reasonable expectation, I don't think I left much XP on the table unless you want to solo a lot more (I used Linu as my Henchy of choice, with Tony K AI, she also identifies gear).

This guy is the perfect surpise attack from stealth killer. He picks a target for first elimiation in a group (Mages/Clerics) annihilates them with sneak attack plus large weapon + high strength, with him down the great cleaves and criticals chew through most of the enemy mob before they can react. 

As a Human with good Intelligence and a decent amount of Rogue levels there are skill points to max important Rogue skills and Rogue levels are spaced at regular intervals those skills are kept from lagging so he is a very effective Rogue, with high strength and many fighter levels, he also stands toe to toe quite well as a fighter.

IMO pretty much uncompromised as a fighter or as a stealthy rogue and particularly deadly as surprise attack from stealth fighter.  Champion of Torm levels are essentially just like fighter but benefit saving throws.

Also with UMD he can cast devastating spells from the scrolls.  Basically you can do almost everything.

It is an extremely versatile build that is a blast to sneak attack into mobs and destory them with great cleave...

Level 17, Human Rogue(7), Fighter(4), Champion of Torm(6)

STR: 16 (20)
DEX: 15
CON: 14
WIS: 8
INT: 14
CHA: 8

01: Rogue(1): Power Attack, Cleave
02: Fighter(1): Weapon Focus: Greatsword
03: Fighter(2): Toughness, Knockdown
04: Rogue(2): STR+1, {Evasion}, (STR=17)
05: Fighter(3)
06: Rogue(3): Stealthy, {Uncanny Dodge I}
07: Fighter(4): Weapon Specialization: Greatsword
08: Rogue(4): STR+1, (STR=18)
09: Champion of Torm(1): Great Cleave
10: Champion of Torm(2): Blind Fight
11: Rogue(5)
12: Champion of Torm(3): STR+1, Iron Will, {Smite Evil}, (STR=19)
13: Champion of Torm(4): Improved Critical: Greatsword
14: Rogue(6)
15: Champion of Torm(5): Improved Knockdown
16: Champion of Torm(6): STR+1, Dodge, (STR=20)
17: Rogue(7)


Hitpoints: 193
Skillpoints: 160
Saving Throws (Fortitude/Will/Reflex): 16/9/16
BAB: 15

Max these every Rogue Level(I had these all at 20 my final level):
Disable Trap 20
Hide 20
Move Silently 20
Open Lock 20
Search 20
Tumble 20
UMD 20

You have enough points left over to max one more skill (Set Trap?) or spread around. I did this:
 
Persuade 4
Listen 16

Persuade helps you get some extra rewards but you soon get gear to boost chr/persuade.
But max out Appraise and you might get a LOT more money from gear, but I haven't tried this.