Author Topic: Paladin build - need help making him epic  (Read 456 times)

Legacy_nrpXX

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 12
  • Karma: +0/-0
Paladin build - need help making him epic
« on: October 21, 2010, 09:13:38 pm »


               So I have this paladin at level 20:
Stats:
STR 20
DEX 14
CON 13
INT 9
WIS 12
CHA 13

Appraise 1
Bluff 3
Concentration 9
Craft Armor 1
Craft Trap 1
Craft Weapon 1
Discipline 17
Heal 8
Hide 4
Intimidate 3
Listen 3
Lore 3
Move Silently 4
Parry 17
Persuade 7
Ride 4
Search 1
Spot 3
Taunt 9

Armor Proficiency heavy
Armor Proficiency light
Armor Proficiency medium
Aura of Courage
Cleave
Divine Grace
Divine Health
Empower Spell
Great Cleave
Improved Evasion
Improved Unarmed Strike
Lay on Hands
Power Attack
Quick to Master
Remove Disease
Shield Proficiency
Smite Evil
Toughness
Turn Undead
Weapon Focus (greatsword)
Weapon Proficiency exotic
Weapon Proficiency martial
Weapon Proficiency simple

My question is, at this point, what should I do to make him epic, and what were any mistakes I made? I can't really unmake him; fortunately this is an RP server...
               
               

               
            

Legacy_Eurypterid

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 79
  • Karma: +0/-0
Paladin build - need help making him epic
« Reply #1 on: October 22, 2010, 12:07:57 am »


               How does your Paladin have Improved Evasion?



Things that IMO are mistakes:



- Points in Parry. Generally and widely regarded as a waste of skill points.

- Discipline should be maxed at 23. Either go all out with Discipline or don't bother.

- CON at 13. You get bonuses with even numbers on your abilities. I'd fix that by adding a point there or taking one away (next time you make a character).

- CHA at 13. See above.

- Exotic Weapons. Unless there's a compelling reason, I'd have skipped that feat, especially since you took focus in Greatswords.

- Improved Unarmed Strike? What's the thought behind this one? If there's a reason because of where you're playing, then cool. Otherwise, I'd consider that a waste of a feat.

- Empower Spell. Great feat for casters, but I wouldn't take it for a Paladin.

- INT of 9. Again, avoid odd numbers. I'd go no lower than 10. Skill points are very valuable.

- no cross-classed points into Tumble. Extra AC is always good, especially so for a character using a two hander.

- 14 DEX. This is generally the dump stat for a Pally build. Most would pump STR and CHA and grab the Divine feats (Divine Shield and Divine Might)



What I'd suggest for epic levels:



- grab some Champion of Torm levels if your server allows it. It will improve your saving throws and also get you some extra feats.

- take Great STR feats whenever you can. Use your bonus feats to grab Armor Skin, Epic Prowess, and Epic Weapon Focus.
               
               

               
            

Legacy_nrpXX

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 12
  • Karma: +0/-0
Paladin build - need help making him epic
« Reply #2 on: October 22, 2010, 01:53:21 am »


               Alright thanks! Yeah I'm pretty new to all this '<img'>
I'm not really sure where improved unarmed strike came from, tbh...maybe i was drunk that night?

Also, what should i put my skill points into?
               
               

               


                     Modifié par nrpXX, 22 octobre 2010 - 01:00 .
                     
                  


            

Legacy_HipMaestro

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2849
  • Karma: +0/-0
Paladin build - need help making him epic
« Reply #3 on: October 22, 2010, 03:17:40 am »


               

nrpXX wrote...

Alright thanks! Yeah I'm pretty new to all this '<img'>
I'm not really sure where improved unarmed strike came from, tbh...maybe i was drunk that night?

Also, what should i put my skill points into?

Thank the gods' good graces that Eurypterid decided to brave the shark-infested waters on this one.

Take it from me, builds and intoxication make poor bedfellows especially when you are new at it.

If someone forced me to try to make this sick puppy work, I would place an ability point in all Cha (14),  Int (10) and Con (14), then start to glean something useful.  You've already spread your skills W-A-A-Y too thin and I haven't worked it out on paper, but dumping a few times to rogue will help to catch up your skills somewhat.  Without knowing the specifics of your server (much Taunting?), it's a difficult call.  It's typical to max Conc & Disc , plus Taunt, if you can scrounge enough points together.  If you can multiclass to rogue, you'll be able to grab the AC boost from Tumble in groups of 5 (ea 5 pts = +1AC).  I would take a minimum of 3 dump levels of rogue to get Evasion and UD (the sneaks won't hurt either.  Regardless of how you decide to class, pick one or two skills and max them, if possible, and avoid all the others.

Although, the tendency will be to commit totally to Str IMO there is too much to be gained by rounding off those 3 other abilities.  This is why it is so important to maximuize your abilities at creation so you don't have to play catch-up later on.
               
               

               
            

Legacy_avado

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 249
  • Karma: +0/-0
Paladin build - need help making him epic
« Reply #4 on: October 22, 2010, 03:19:18 am »


               

NWNwiki…
Improved Evasion
Prerequisite: monk 9, rogue 10, shadowdancer 10



You either dont have a PURE paladin OR you have it from an item, which, since you have enough feats, it seems the most reasonable answer. 

nrpXX wrote...

My question is, at this point, what should I do to make him epic, and what were any mistakes I made? I can't really unmake him; fortunately this is an RP server...


You can ALWAYS start over, rp or not!  With this build you will never have an "epic" character.  There is just so much wrong with it (see above).


 
               
               

               


                     Modifié par avado, 22 octobre 2010 - 02:32 .
                     
                  


            

Legacy_nrpXX

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 12
  • Karma: +0/-0
Paladin build - need help making him epic
« Reply #5 on: October 22, 2010, 12:34:13 pm »


               So if I do rebuild him, where should I put my skill points and stats?

I need max strength for attack, charisma for *magic energy*, and intel OR wisdom for "magic attack".

               
               

               
            

Legacy_Shia Luck

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 560
  • Karma: +0/-0
Paladin build - need help making him epic
« Reply #6 on: October 22, 2010, 02:37:41 pm »


               One thing not mentioned so far is a wisdom of 12. You need 14 to get lvl4 spells and freedom is a very useful spell.

Another is AC. With no tumble points and no shield you are already at least 7AC down and would end up at 11AC down at level40. The most important thing you could do is multiclass to get tumble as a class skill. You have a few points in lore, search etc, so you could think about Harper Scout and get 2 extra Gt Cha feats, but without Divine Might/Shield it won't be very helpful to this character. 

An important tactic for someone wielding a large weapon is disarm. The larger the relative size difference between your weapon and your enemy's weapon, the more bonus you get to your disarm attempt. Obviously Improved disarm improves your chances further, and those feats needs INT 13. Once you have disarmed him it effectively increases your AC.

Another way to improve your AC on the fly is with expertise and improved expertise and aagin you'll need INT 13. Make it 14 as per the advice about even numbers above, and now you can easily afford, max tumble, max discipline, concentration, some taunt, heal perhaps. Depends on your environment, but INT points should not be skimped on unless it's a very high magic world with items with everything on.

Soooo...
STR 13+
DEX 8
CON ?
INT 14
WIS 14
CHA ?
... is where I would start.

Feat wise, I'd get extend spell so that you can extend your divine favour and move lvl2 spells to lvl 3. Knockdown is another near must have feat as an anti-caster tactic.

Have fun '<img'>
               
               

               
            

Legacy_HipMaestro

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2849
  • Karma: +0/-0
Paladin build - need help making him epic
« Reply #7 on: October 22, 2010, 04:36:32 pm »


               Is this intended to be a "pure" pally or one that is merely primarily a pally? Do you have any idea how far into epic you will taking this character? level 30?  level 40? This will make a huge difference because there are so many combinations with a paladin mix you could get overwhelmed by suggestions and possibilities.  Giving recommendations on a pure 40 paladin is much easier (though probably not the most powerful or effective choice).  Think about your goal, make a choice and then the community will help steer you towards your goal.  You should understand that most of the fun of building these characters comes from your own trial-and-error learning process rather than copying someone else's ideas. Basics first, refinements next. -end of sermon-
               
               

               
            

Legacy_Jfoxtail

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 146
  • Karma: +0/-0
Paladin build - need help making him epic
« Reply #8 on: October 22, 2010, 06:41:05 pm »


               There are many "correct but not perfect" ways to build a paladin; but here is my general starting point  (by memory - sorry if stat spread is not exact. I think Int is 12)



Str 15

Dex 8

Con 12

Int 12

Wis 14

Cha 15



I build Str up to 16 at level 4 and Cha up to 16 at level 8. I take all the useful feats early like : Blind Fight (a must), Power Attack and Cleave, and Toughness for example.



Then at level 8 - based on the environment (single player module or persistent wrold) I spealize:



1) From there I either build STR all the way focusing feats in Improved Cleave, Knockdown, Weapon Focus and Improved Critical or...



2) I build CHA all the way focusing on Extra Smiting, Divine Shield, Divine Attack, Extra turning.



Number 1 is a "holy fighter" with lots of combat type feats and extra buffs to wade in. Bennfits from Fighter levels and Champion of Torm levels for extra feats; however the saves are not all that great because his bonus from charisma isnt that high. He/she might typically fight with a greatsword to bennefit from the Str bonus damage. Great in heavy hack and slash mods or PWs.



Number 2 is a "divine smitter" that buffs using as much charisma power as possible and then wades in. As Cha builds the buffs and damage bonuses last longer but wouldnt necessarily use a two handed weapon as they dont benefit from the Str damage as much. Sword and board. Also benefits from fighter or COT levels; but might bennefit from Sorcerer level or 5 (with a feat that allows you to cast in metal armour) to gain really neat arcane spell buffs. Great in mods with a lot of persuade skill checks and dialouge heavy.



Anyway - either choice is fine and at the end of the day enjoy the build that you make.



You didnt say but I suppose you are playing one of the official campaigns.
               
               

               
            

Legacy_nrpXX

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 12
  • Karma: +0/-0
Paladin build - need help making him epic
« Reply #9 on: October 22, 2010, 07:57:47 pm »


               It's a RP server, but there is still PvE.

RP is done through dicefighting...

Basically, STR is attack, DEX is attack and initiative (but I'm going str obvi), const+1/2 str or dex is health, INT or WIS is used for "magic", and CHR is used for magic power.