Btw: Toolset of NWN = suck

[Legacy_CID-78]

               Well it's a fact the the more advanced a toolset get the more confusing it will seem to the beginner. because you will drown in options and long list and weird words that only make sense to people in the field. WIth todays demand on short development cycles there is little effort made in making them better after they get the latest functionality to work as intended.

NWN2 can do almost everything NWN can and a bit more. The major point you should ask yourself when you pick between them is these:

Do I intend to change the GUI of the game. if Yes NWN2 is your only option, if No also ask below question.
Do I want to use Height mesh area's or tileset when building exterior?,
Heightmesh = NWN2 and tileset == NWN.

All other things can be worked out on both systems with slightly diffrent approaches. I think area design is the most dividing part when it comes to picking toolset today. You need to ask yourself what do you need and what can you live without.

if 3D is the most important part with your module, sure go with TES construction set, Because neither NWN or DA give you true 3D. in the end every toolset have somethig they are Best at, either because they are the only toolset that can do it or because they do it better.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_The Fred]

               There are quite a few minor differences between the two NWN toolsets as well. There are a bunch of scripting commands and so on which give you more functionality in NWN2. Then again, NWN1 has colour channel changing and things like that. Either way I'd say they are both amongst the best toolsets I've ever seen (not that that's many, admittedly).
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_henesua]

               Actually, I have to agree on a minor level with the troll because I mad a couple games inUnity3D (Now Unity) before I used the NWN toolset. For the time that NWN came out however there was nothing of equal usability, nor depth. So while in many respects NWN is frustrating to deal with, its benefits far outweigh the negatives. That I am making a game using NWN rather than doing so with Unity right now says something in its favor however. The NWN community is amazing. I got tired of making all of my own art assets, didn't want to buy them, and so NWN was the natural choice for a hobby project.

Try making an RPG from scratch in another modder's engine, that doesn't look like the original. Good luck with that. And could I make an RPG by myself in Unity? Maybe after a few years of dedicated weekends I'd have a demo worth playing. But in NWN it is possible to pull off a PW by myself in one year. I'm working on a single player mod, and estimate that I'll have it done in less than half a year of work. Its hard to beat that.

I will definitely be going back to Unity because its art asset pipeline is the best out there, and you can sell your projects, (I'd love to take some of you with me to work on a commercial project) BUT it took me three years working with it and modellign on my own to learn how to make games. By comparison I was able to rework an entire PW single handedly six months after I picked up NWN for the first time.

Something to think about. NWN may suck compared to what is available now, but even now it is an awesome tool for a hobbyist to use. And much of the content produced by this community is commercial grade stuff. The percentage of the Unity community that came up through the ranks like that is smaller. Many lost interest after a few years. In the NWN community on the other hand you have similar ambitions that resulted in persistant worlds.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par henesua, 05 juin 2011 - 09:55 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_CID-78]

               well if your skilled enough you don't need a toolset to make a game. you could write one from scratch. but who want to redesign the wheel if there is a game that fit your bill ready for new content. Personally I want todo my own art and a toolset that doesn't allow that would really suck. But i am not aware of a toolset worth a name that doesn't allow it.

what's really best about NWN2 toolset is the XML GUI, it open up a whole new world of possibilities that neither DA or NWN has.

DA rocks when it comes to Animations and Cutscenes, the scripting system is also superb.

NWN is like i already said the best beginner toolset and for those who don't want to spend ages on area design. With custom tilesets you can get very far in details and orginality here aswell.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Skellimancer]

               The toolset is great.

Haters gonna hate.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_NWN DM]

               

Baaleos wrote...

I have used the nwn toolset for about 5 years now, and I have tried opening the NWN2 counterpart toolset up, and instantly got confused by its layout and interface.

On that note, I think the nwn1 toolset, is superior to even its sequel.

Well that's a reasonable comparison to make... something you use for 5 years vs something you casually "tried opening".

I'm sure that if you put as much time into the NWN2 toolset as you have into the NWN toolset, it would be on an equal footing in your level of understanding.

Certainly, I can identify with feeling lost and confused upon opening the NWN2 toolset for the first time... but as with all things, there's a learning curve (the same kind of learning curve by the way that one had to go through with the NWN toolset).

Both are good at some things, and both have their own shortcomings.  But they are the only options if someone wants to build their own D&D adventures in the on-line realm.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Gregor Wyrmbane]

               To quote NWN DM from another thread, "Much ado about nothing."  ;^)
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Mudeye]

               The original poster hasn't replied in 2 weeks.  I suspect he's gone into the witness relocation program.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Snottling-]

               Heheheh, this is funny. Coming to the forums after years and telling us that it sucks? Well, that's your opinion, but you won't find many to agree with you, pal '>

I've been using the Aurora Toolset since the game was released in June 2002. And guess what? I LOVE IT! For me, it's the perfect way to create content to the joy of others. Scripting? I don't care, I have my son for that. '>
Once again: I LOVE THE AURORA TOOLSET!
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Skellimancer]

               

Mudeye wrote...

The original poster hasn't replied in 2 weeks.  I suspect he's gone into the witness relocation program.

There is no escape from the retribution!
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Borden Haelven]

               Like all human interfaces it has one fatal restriction...

Personally, I think it rocks.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Pstemarie]

               

Gecon wrote...

Even years after I used it the last time I still remember vividly how awful the NWN1 toolset was to use.

- Inconsistent interface (sometimes you had to delete with delete key, other times by moving the item over a "trashcan" icon that wasnt even instantly recognizeable as a trashcan in the first place).
- Modal dialogues everywhere.
- The whole blueprint and copy issue. Having to update the copies every time you updated the blueprint. Ugh.
- The painful script language. Seriously, either make a compileable script language and then made it cleanly modularized, or just keep the original scripts. Compiling every include again and again individually for every script = extreme explosion of module size, extremely uncool.
- Not to mention the complete lack of arrays in the scripting language.
- The dialogue editor that just didnt allowed to easily refer to already created dialogue.

Yeah some parts of the toolset have been good, like designing a dungeon etc was really fast and easy. But overall the Morrowind toolset was much less painful to use than the NWN1 one.

               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Winterhawk99]

               dang missed all this fun thats what I get for only casually browsing the forums
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_simo7mate]

               

Xardex wrote...


- I dont even know what you mean by a trashcan icon, but I sure as hell have had no need for it.
- Modal dialogues? What?
-You dont actually have to update instances everytime you change the blueprint. *
-NWScript is a fairly easy and powerful language and it differs only so much from the C -language it was derived from. Compiling includes is not something you have to do individually* and I cant see how it 'extremely' affects the module size more so then the scripts themselves.
-There may be no arrays in the language itself but thats what .2da's are for, and the language does have ways to read these files so I wouldn't say there is a 'complete lack' of arrays. As a sidenote I haven't never even needed arrays for anything I have done with NWscript, and I have done alot with it.
-Refer to already created dialogue? You can copy/paste dialogue trees from other dialogues and link to previous spots in the same dialogue. What you cant do is link from one dialogue to another, but that is because they are different dialogues.

* You can 'build' the module whenever you wish and choose what it does. I only use it just for mass compiling all my scripts and updating the blueprings, which seemed to be the problems you described. You can 'build' much more then that though..

I dont know how good morrowind toolset it compared to nwn toolset, but it should be pretty godly to be any better.

I play and love morrowind but I agree with you. The Elders Scrolls construction set was just a mere add on, to satisfy player's need to mod their game. As we all know, Elders Scroll games already have massive worlds and arent about a toolset. NWN, on the other hand, is ABOUT the toolset. 
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_simo7mate]

               Oh btw, I found the toolset hard to use at first. But any good toolset or anything like it WILL be hard, IF it's good. It's called: Learn how to use it?