Paladin vs CoT for HotU + Sand of Fates series ?

[Legacy_Varlak]

               Just finished SoU with my Charisma paladin (ended with 10pal/3fighter). At first I was thinking about going 16pal/4fighter/20CoT but now that I got the holy avanger I'm wondering if the high paladin levels are realy needed.

As I get it with a sword providing the holy avenger buff the only benefit from going paladin is to save gold on str and cha potions vs more feath and a bether devine wrath if I'd go for more Champion of Torm levels.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Empyre65]

               I did something similar to what you are doing once, playing Paladin to get Holy Avenger, but when I got Enserric the Longsword, I wound up using that sword instead of the Holy Avenger, so I didn't need Paladin after all. Mine was a STR-based Paladin 26 / Sorcerer 4 / RDD 10. That fire immunity comes in real handy in Sands of Fate, as do the wings. Dev. Crit. was nice, too.

Despite having played that build, I am not a Paladin expert. I do know that people generally recommend that you put no more than 10 levels in CoT because the feats come further apart after that.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_MrZork]

               You may find, in the course of playing this character, that there are times when you are without a given weapon or that you might prefer to use another weapon yet still want to be able to add to it the holy sword properties, even if temporarily. It can be risky to assume that you will always have a particular magic item...

As you note, the higher paladin build has improved spellcasting. In addition to healing and Bull’s Strength, that includes the fact that paladin buffs will last longer and be less likely to be dispelled at higher levels, not to mention that some paladin spells besides Holy Sword (e.g. Death Ward) can be useful. In addition to the spellcasting, high paladin levels maintain the turn undead ability, which can be quite useful.

I think the big question at 10 pal / 3 fighter is what are you planning to do for the rest of your pre-epic levels? I think it would be a mistake to take more than a couple CoT bonus feats pre-epic in this build, since the CoT bonus feats come much less frequently after level 10 and you’d like to use those for epic feats, if you can.

After CoT level 10, CoT bonus feats come only one per 4 levels instead of one per 2 levels, whereas epic paladins are one per three levels. Now, you are not planning to get that far in paladin anyway in the 16/4/20 build you mention, but it could easily be that you get as many or more epic feats by taking epic paladin levels and quitting CoT at level 10. For example, a 26 Pal / 4 fighter / 10 CoT (going 16/3/1 pre-epic) will end up with 5 CoT and 2 Pal bonus feats at epic levels for 7 total, whereas a 10 Pal / 4 fighter / 26 CoT (going 10/3/7 pre-epic) will have 6 CoT bonus feats at epic levels (and none from Pal), so that build comes up one epic bonus feat short of the epic paladin build.

(Note that a 10 Pal / 10 fighter / 20 CoT, with a 10/9/1 pre-epic mix gets 7 CoT bonus feats at epic levels, which may be the max pal/CoT bonus feats takable in epics for a build that's where you are at level 13. That's just tied with the high-pally build mentioned above. Of course, this build will have more pre-epic fighter feats, which may be a consideration if you are feeling feat starved pre-epic.)

IMO, and ignoring few things, comparing the 26/4/10 paladin/fighter/CoT build to the 10/4/26 build looks a lot like a choice between better spellcasting, better turning, and an extra epic bonus feat versus better saves and a once-per-day boost from Divine Wrath (although that is a significant boost and it lasts long enough for a boss fight in a charisma build). Someone else may notice something I’ve missed which makes one choice or the other a lopsided winner, but I hope that helps for now.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Varlak]

               Thanks for advices guys. As of now I think that I'll follow my original build for now during HotU (heard I should finish it by around lvl 27 only). Then I'll re-think. Either I'd bring my character into Sands of Fate and go high paladin with prob 10 CoT. Or I'll just make a Divine warrior of equivalent levels (http://web.archive.o...newarrior.html?).

Basicaly I would trade the paladin spells for higher saves: Fort:54, Reflex:44 and Will:45 seems tempting when you walk on traps all day long lol.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Noldorsteel]

               Well I made my human CHA paladin insipred by the powerfull build 4ftr/ 6pal/and 30CoT with these starting stats:

14 STR
10 DEX
14 CONT

14 INT ( High INT for a paladin because I wanted disarm , expertise, knockdown (improved versions too)  and many skill points for heal, taunt, dicipline, persuade and even cfraft armor to customize looks)

8 WIS ( For me the paladin spells are not bad, but in this build with only 6 paladin levels wisdom was not even needed. Not to mention that will saves are going to be high anyways  thanks to divine grace and sacred defence)
16 CHA  and raising it to 25+ for greater smiting

Im having a blast with this build since it really feels more like a divine warrior  with many combat feats rather than a combat oriented cleric with few spells. And as I said, paladin spells are just ignored and I focus more on divine shield/might to buff my character. Right now Im lvl 13 and Im about to finish SOU. Then I plan to play a bridge mod,  then HOTU and after that the sands of fate series.

The best of all was that this build even made sense in terms of RP (I mean, my char was a fighter that decided to join the paladins of Torm and eventualy when he gained experience and divine power from his deity ,he became an epic champion of Torm.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Noldorsteel, 28 mai 2012 - 06:03 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Greatpanda]

               Paladin requires most strictly in alignment, only lawful good. And Paladin has some special abilities for its own class (e.g. smite evil,lay on hand). The most useful is his saving throw increase with his charisma adjustments. So a Cha=18 Paladin has +4 in saving throwings and Cha=20 Paladin has +5 in saving throws.

Champion of Torm is a new class, it provide an alternative for player who wants to enjoy Paladin-like ability but currently not a Paladin (e.g. not lawful good or now a Druid). CoT progress with increase in saving throws every two levels by average. So his saving throws increase to +5 when level 10 CoT. CoT has another advantage that he gain one more fighter feat every two level, so it is a fighter-like class which require no alignment or charisma when Paladin require them. If you want more feat to spend(e.g. you decide to add Weapon master class level later) you may want to progress into CoT. The CoT only require one feat in weapon focus(any type, I always choose one melee weapon) and +7 in BAB. So you can likely add this class after level 14 unless you are fighter which increase BAB each level (so you can choose CoT after level 7)(BAB=basic attack bonus) can be check from player information screen, press C)
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Greatpanda, 05 juillet 2013 - 09:20 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_MagicalMaster]

               Why do you keep bumping year old threads and offer bad information?

Only Wizards/Sorcerers/Pale Masters would have to wait until level 14, for example - literally every class could access CoT much sooner.