MrZork wrote...
Not sure what you mean by infinite healing in Sands of Fate. As I recall, there is an item strip at the beginning of SoF. Were healing pots not stripped? Anyway, I don't recall any infinite heal items dropping, but I also don't recall potions being all that hard to get.
I don't recall an item strip -- and I see comments on the Vault saying stuff like "But any fighter with Sword and Shield should have great AC after playing through Hordes. I had +6 shield, +7 armor and +9 ring of protection. Throw in amulet of Natural AC, some nice boots and perma haste and my AC was around 60. Most stuff simply couldn't even hit me. For offense you should have a +10 weapon with elemental damage/keen. You should also have items to give +12 on your strength."
Even if there was an item strip, I'm pretty sure there were stores selling an infinite number of Heal potions which are quite cheap -- I didn't literally mean an infinite heal item, just that walking around with 200+ Heal potions was quite simple to achieve. Effectively infinite.
MrZork wrote...
For sure, there are balance issues in Sands of Fate and I certainly think there are better modules (Aielund is the one I have played that lets a player use the same character from start to mid-30s). But, I also had fun playing SoF, in no small part because the character was the one I had come to enjoy in SoU and HotU. I think that many players enjoy the story as much as how well the module balances encounters. And, I don't doubt that much of SoF's popularity derives from its position as a module where a player can come out of HotU and start playing SoF without re-rolling a character or getting used to greatly modified game mechanics.
Quite possibly -- but the reason I loathed it was mainly the cheap tricks rather than the actual balance. Like you walk into a puddle of water that looks exactly like other puddles and your boots melt. TIME TO RELOAD AND UNEQUIP MY BOOTS! Just stupid stuff like that which greatly detracted from the story.
I mean, hell, I'm perfectly fine with modules that have ZERO combat or irrelevant combat -- see the Eternum series or the HeX coda series as two examples. I'm fine with modules that have easy combat. I'm not fine with modules that have stupid combat and cheap tricks.
MrZork wrote...
LOL, I don't remember saying 1% or 4% was what I meant, so we are edging into strawman territory again. If we are really looking to quibble over definitions, then I would stick with my complaint about your use of "MASSIVE AWESOME DAMAGE" and I think I would be on pretty solid ground. ;-)
4% is what you'd actually do versus an opponent that takes 30 seconds in melee to kill per our numbers earlier -- I didn't invent that out of thin air.
And I don't think you would be, actually, if we look at stuff like your Drow and Earth Elemental examples down below. Versus the drow you actually DO deal "MASSIVE AWESOME DAMAGE" and you still deal a lot of damage to the Earth Elemental -- DEFINITELY within the realm of "softening it up." But both of those examples are fatally flawed for reasons below.
MrZork wrote...
First test case: Drow Militia (nw_drowfight020). This guy has AC 20 (19+Dodge), 74 HP, and is rated "easy" in the PC's examine widget, e.g. not tough but not "effortless" either. I.e. he is a mob.
So, let's move to a standard Elder Earth Elemental (nw_eartheld), a tougher guy than the drow and rated "moderate" in the examine widget with AC 23 and HP 228, closer to the other end of the mob HP spectrum.
I went ahead and bolded/italicized the massive issue here -- the AC of those mobs. Let's put this in perspective. A fighter built by the recommend button will have 20 BAB, 21 str, weapon focus, and let's say Ogre Gauntlets and Fire Giant Belt for 28 str total (which isn't very high, assumes no potions, assumes no other str gear, etc). So far we have 20 + 1 + 9 = 30 AB and let's say a +3 longsword for 33 AB. His attack schedule is thus 33/28/23/18 (and possibly another 33 with Haste). So let's say he enters melee with the drow. HE CANNOT MISS ON ANY ATTACK EXCEPT A ONE. Let me repeat that: HE CANNOT MISS ON ANY ATTACK EXCEPT A ONE. The only way for our recommend button fighter friend to miss is to roll a one for ANY attack, even his last attack.
But hey, he's a fighter, right? Let's look at...say...a rogue! Well, we'd expect a similar Dex score with Weapon Finesse, we just lack 5 BAB. So we get 28 AB for a schedule of 28/23/18. Notice anything?
HE STILL CAN'T MISS ON ANY ATTACK UNLESS HE ROLLS A ONE.
Or, to rephrase it: you could give that Drow 0 AC and it wouldn't change anything. That's how low its AC is for a level 20 character.
I mean, hell, a fighter wearing NOTHING but a standard full plate will have 19 AC at level ONE! 19 AC is atrocious. Absolutely atrocious -- and 23 AC is barely better. That's a fighter with +1 full plate, +1 deflection ring, +1 natural armor amulet, and +1 dodge boots. If we go by our earlier statement of "Fighters hit the enemies 75% of the time on the highest attack" then even looking at the recommend button build we'd expect to fight enemies with an AC of 39. Even if we make it so a fighter has to roll a 1 to miss on the first attack that's still 35 AC.
So 35 AC is like your MINIMUM AC for an opponent for a level 20 PC assuming we're balancing around a recommend button fighter who hits 95% of the time and who only has a +3 weapon, only +7 strength from gear, and no buffs (either from potions or players).
20 AC? That's a disgrace. No wonder you did MASSIVE AWESOME DAMAGE with your bow!
MrZork wrote...
So, yes, in either case, I feel pretty comfortable saying that the ranged damage softened these guys up. If you think that the term doesn't fit or that the damage isn't worth doing, that's fine.
I'd say you annihilated the drow and softened up the earth elemental. But that's like saying you annihilated your laptop computer in a kickboxing match and softened up a man with no arms or legs in a sword fight.
MrZork wrote...
But, knowing the CR is no more unrealistic than a group of 5 HD orcs deciding to attack my epic mage as he walks down the road, glowing like a Las Vegas casino with all of his buffs. ;-)
Well, theoretically orcs might be stupid -- but you think human bandits would run the other direction if a group of five knights in magically glowing full plate and flaming swords are coming in their direction.
WoW does something interesting where being higher level than the mob means they'll aggro (notice) you from a shorter distance while being lower level means they'll notice you from farther away -- but I don't think that's really implementable in NWN. Well, you might be able to do something like changing the underlying AI to NOT have the creature attack and just continue standing there depending on the distance between the creature and PC and based on the level difference -- but seems it might be rather buggy and a pain to do.
Modifié par MagicalMaster, 28 janvier 2014 - 06:05 .