Author Topic: Persistent Worlds  (Read 1597 times)

Legacy_TSMDude

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Persistent Worlds
« Reply #15 on: September 02, 2010, 01:22:12 am »


               But it is happening. There is numerous servers I have seen dying of and while some of it has benefitted us in the long run it benefits none of us to lose players to other games.



It comes down how do we compete and make it so Role Playing Worlds or any type of PW stay in the hunt?



I think the OP orginally hoped for this exact discussion and bailed too ealry.Nothing ever happens quickw ith PWs and anytime and PW guy tells you one week add two weeks to it just cause, lol.



I really hope to someday see something were we get together and can acomplish this but heck, two of the servers I have even talked to are on this thread and regardless if they see it are not we all are on the back nine and to prolong and go another 18 holes we need to some way figure out how to adapt.



I think the best way and have seen it echoed a few times in other peoples post would be to combine groups and such. Pool our resources and Server Vaults. Have a true PW Community Counsel.



Sorry....I work for nonprofits and actually organize for a living in places like Hattai and Darfur so this just seems natural to me....so if I come off a little heav handed it is not my intention.
               
               

               
            

Legacy_kalbaern

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« Reply #16 on: September 04, 2010, 07:25:44 pm »


               

TSMDude wrote...

But it is happening. There is numerous servers I have seen dying of and while some of it has benefitted us in the long run it benefits none of us to lose players to other games.

It comes down how do we compete and make it so Role Playing Worlds or any type of PW stay in the hunt?

I think the OP orginally hoped for this exact discussion and bailed too ealry.Nothing ever happens quickw ith PWs and anytime and PW guy tells you one week add two weeks to it just cause, lol.

I really hope to someday see something were we get together and can acomplish this but heck, two of the servers I have even talked to are on this thread and regardless if they see it are not we all are on the back nine and to prolong and go another 18 holes we need to some way figure out how to adapt.

I think the best way and have seen it echoed a few times in other peoples post would be to combine groups and such. Pool our resources and Server Vaults. Have a true PW Community Counsel.

Sorry....I work for nonprofits and actually organize for a living in places like Hattai and Darfur so this just seems natural to me....so if I come off a little heav handed it is not my intention.


I think the best solution is to use the approach Avlis did. That is to have core rules and systems that all the linked PWs use and let each module have its own flavor after that.

It was mentioned earlier that two FR modules, one in Cormyr and the other in The Sword Coast wouldn't mesh well, but I disagree. Just because the Western Heartlands and The North are missing between these areas of Faerun doesn't mean the first two should never be connected. This is a fantasy game first and foremost and sometimes we all spend to much time worrying about scale and reality. I think that two such modules would entice others to fill in the gap between their map boundries. So distance is less of a concern, to me at least.

My own PW is in the Forgotten Realms and borders with some overlap the one TSM Dude has. We'd and others had discussed mergers, but it comes down to several issues which all parties needed to agree upon. Knowing what hindered us could help others here though.

1 - Hosting: TSM's original desire was to host all of the modules that would be linked. While this makes maintaining a common server vault less of an issue, it was also something I was personally wary of. My own PW has a dedicated server already and having to rely on someone else who at the time was having issues keeping theirs up just wasn't comforting. (Though that seems less of an issue nowadays)

2 - Rules: Rules were a big issue too. My own PW uses fairly strict rules on classes and builds. Stricter than TSMs own. We also don't allow anything but standard races as characters and TSM was adding subraces. Since we wouldn't consider allowing "their" subraces to visit "our" PW, that hinders alot of possibilities. Rules regarding multiclassing, prestige class requirements and deities I think we could have came to aggreements on, but "no subraces" was something I was firm on.

3 - Mechanics and Systems: Both of our PWs have modified spells, custom resting and foraging systems and crafting. Compromises here would've also been possible. XP though a big issue. Well, not XP gained, but how it's gained. TSM has a timed XP system that provides players with the lions share of XP gained IG. Ours does not. We instead use XP gained from quests, combat, foraging and fishing along with DM rewards to advance PCs. I'm not faulting TSM for it, they simply have a core group that differed from my own as to how best to handle this. A merger without addressing the XP issue would have led to players visitng my PW to get more XP while adventuring and then visit TSM to get XP while sitting around a tavern chatting about the adventure they'd just finished.

Our economies and general character advancement were on par otherwise. Our PWs border each other nicely. The few areas of overlap could easilly be negotiated. Both PWs use CEP 2.3 though my own uses a few others as well. This wouldn't hinder a merger much as only players wishing to visit mine would need the extra haks. (you can check before allowing them to portal and players without the right haks would simply see a message stating they are missing them) We shared more similarities than differences, but still ... the differences were wide gaps to be bridged with no easy solutions. While I never haved completely ruled out a merger with them or others, those same three numbered concerns would cover most PWs I'd consider a merger with.

Anyhow, hope this sheds some light for folks. My advice? Agree on 1 thru 3 above before you even make your first areas, then the rest is cake. Merging existing PWs is just too hard otherwise.
               
               

               
            

Legacy_TSMDude

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« Reply #17 on: September 04, 2010, 09:17:12 pm »


               

kalbaern wrote...


1 - Hosting: TSM's original desire was to host all of the modules that would be linked. While this makes maintaining a common server vault less of an issue, it was also something I was personally wary of. My own PW has a dedicated server already and having to rely on someone else who at the time was having issues keeping theirs up just wasn't comforting. (Though that seems less of an issue nowadays)


Yes We did have some hosting issues thankfully those are done with. We were at one time trying to be nice and hosting both our world and the old module we allowed the old Staff to have. Honestly now-a-days with VNC I think we would be cool with anyone hosting part of the module and we hosting part of the module. Heck dont even care who holds the Server Vault.

kalbaern wrote...
2 - Rules: Rules were a big issue too. My own PW uses fairly strict rules on classes and builds. Stricter than TSMs own. We also don't allow anything but standard races as characters and TSM was adding subraces. Since we wouldn't consider allowing "their" subraces to visit "our" PW, that hinders alot of possibilities. Rules regarding multiclassing, prestige class requirements and deities I think we could have came to aggreements on, but "no subraces" was something I was firm on.


Actually i think we both are about the same strict on Character classes we just go about a different way of doing them.  But yes Sub Races is something I do like when done right and seeing how Shayan's Sub Race has been done has changed my mind on it and we finally allowed them. You should see the script Luckbringer wrote as well. It has helped alot and then we used the Krits deity system to further limit some things to bring it in par with canon. (i.e.Female drow clerics for loth ONLY no males type thing)

kalbaern wrote...
3 - Mechanics and Systems: Both of our PWs have modified spells, custom resting and foraging systems and crafting. Compromises here would've also been possible. XP though a big issue. Well, not XP gained, but how it's gained. TSM has a timed XP system that provides players with the lions share of XP gained IG. Ours does not. We instead use XP gained from quests, combat, foraging and fishing along with DM rewards to advance PCs. I'm not faulting TSM for it, they simply have a core group that differed from my own as to how best to handle this. A merger without addressing the XP issue would have led to players visitng my PW to get more XP while adventuring and then visit TSM to get XP while sitting around a tavern chatting about the adventure they'd just finished.

 Once you see the timed in action you would have dug it. We tamed it back more and now it is just a small bonus. It really helps PCs like Darkharp more than anything else and has given rise to several intresting dynamics.

kalbaern wrote...
Our economies and general character advancement were on par otherwise. Our PWs border each other nicely. The few areas of overlap could easilly be negotiated. Both PWs use CEP 2.3 though my own uses a few others as well. This wouldn't hinder a merger much as only players wishing to visit mine would need the extra haks. (you can check before allowing them to portal and players without the right haks would simply see a message stating they are missing them) We shared more similarities than differences, but still ... the differences were wide gaps to be bridged with no easy solutions. While I never haved completely ruled out a merger with them or others, those same three numbered concerns would cover most PWs I'd consider a merger with.


We have had 2 other servers talk to us btw besides you now which could with some skill and talking we could make it from Amn all the way to Silver Marches now.

And to be honest sittign around and discussing it would make others intrested. When you think about it, knowing that you could travel basically half of Fauren then players would not balk so much at dling haks.
               
               

               
            

Legacy_Eagles Talon

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« Reply #18 on: September 12, 2010, 07:48:43 am »


               Another 2 cents....



I don't know how many of you are up on the NWN3 discussions.  I have read some and am by no means fully knowledgeable on what they are planning.  But from what I have read, they are planning something like WoW with some custom community content available as well.  I'm guessing it will be pay-to-play, though I have not seen that in print yet.  They are planning on DM tools, Toolset etc, but only to add to their existing world, not make independent worlds.  Not so sure how they are going to pull that off.  This is I believe planned for release next year.  This will put another nail in the NWN1 coffin if what I believe is slated to happen does happen.



Mergers of worlds - or more desired - connections of worlds under a combined server vault, does have it's allure.  If all the other issues can be resolved, it's a fine project.  But is there time to pull it off?  Is the amount of organization and work away from our own worlds worth it?  I don't have the answers.  Only more questions I guess.  Always willing to listen, but I, as have others, have been "screwed over" before and will be slow to move.
               
               

               
            

Legacy_ehye_khandee

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« Reply #19 on: September 12, 2010, 01:37:35 pm »


               I think that the 'roll your own' (adventures) nature of both NWN and D&D are a vital aspect as regards the longevity and popularity of both games. Being limited to making content that adds on to NWN3's own megaworld is not as appealing to me as having total control of my own mini-universe. I have always enjoyed adding flourishes and details, especially scripting them too, which helps set my world apart from others.

If NWN3 is pay to play, then I'm out (disabled and with fixed income) so my choice between the two would hinge upon that. Knowing how massively gutted the economy in general has become (oh, yeah, RL intruding on my fantasy again) I think that making a pay-to-play game would be less likely to succeed than otherwise. Then again, I'm a fossil, having been in the games industry for 30 odd years, so perhaps I'm missing something here.

I do agree that we are loosing some players, it is bound to happen. I would like to encourage you all to help cure it; go buy copies of the NWN game while it is available and gift them to your gaming friends - introduce them to our worlds. I think we (community) can stand tall on the merits of what we have built, and what we will yet build.



Be well. Game on.

GM_ODA

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Legacy_Darkfire_Avlis

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« Reply #20 on: September 12, 2010, 06:31:04 pm »


               

Eagles Talon wrote...

Another 2 cents....

I don't know how many of you are up on the NWN3 discussions.  I have read some and am by no means fully knowledgeable on what they are planning.  But from what I have read, they are planning something like WoW with some custom community content available as well.  I'm guessing it will be pay-to-play, though I have not seen that in print yet.  They are planning on DM tools, Toolset etc, but only to add to their existing world, not make independent worlds.  Not so sure how they are going to pull that off.  This is I believe planned for release next year.  This will put another nail in the NWN1 coffin if what I believe is slated to happen does happen.

Mergers of worlds - or more desired - connections of worlds under a combined server vault, does have it's allure.  If all the other issues can be resolved, it's a fine project.  But is there time to pull it off?  Is the amount of organization and work away from our own worlds worth it?  I don't have the answers.  Only more questions I guess.  Always willing to listen, but I, as have others, have been "screwed over" before and will be slow to move.


I am not a leader of any of the current CoPaP worlds, so unfortunately I can't help you too much. When CoPaP originally started though, there was definitely some bad results and conflicts from the world leaders which ended ugly. I don't want to portray it as something perfect that will just instantly happen with flawless results. BUT! That was a long time ago, when NWN was still young and CoPaP (and the individual servers) were still trying to establish themselves, get their own teams and worlds consistent, trust worthy, etc. It is not just the people wanting to join a connected system (using CoPaP as an example, but the same would hold true for other places), but also the people who are already connected. Everyone has something at stake.

Now though, a lot more experience is had by the servers in CoPaP, and the entire NWN community as a whole. Better results are a lot more likely to happen now then they were back then, at least in my opinion.
               
               

               
            

Legacy_TSMDude

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« Reply #21 on: March 17, 2011, 09:13:39 pm »


               With people talking again maybe these idiot griefers might have helped us start communicating more and leaning toward a one central hub for all of the same types of servers to coexist.

Like Forgotten realms Role Playing Servers all using the same centeral server vault.
or
Action Servers doing the same.

All of us could double to triple our players experiences and maybe even breathe even more life into this Ancient Game we all love....