Modifying a Hakpack doesn't work with previous save?

[Legacy_cleverwebhandle]

               

Fairly simple question - I've been playing around with taking certain player models from the CEP and adding it to a custom hak used for a single player module. I can make the modified Hak work in the toolset, and I can use the new stuff if starting a new game, but

saves made prior to changing the Hak appear to ignore the new models entirely. Is this by design, or is there a way to work around it?

               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Proleric]

               

I'm not sure exactly what change you're trying to achieve?


In simple terms, haks are reloaded every time with a saved game, so changes to haks take immediate effect.


However, that most commonly allows changes to models and textures in flight.

 

So, for example, if you change a head model, or reskin it, then that change will be reflected in the saved game, but only if the saved game referred to that head number in the first place.


The saved game contains all the object data (areas, creatures, placeables) and the player .bic file. You can see exactly what this means if you open the files with NWNExplorer. Compare that with the files in the original module. They're very similar.

 

Broadly speaking, that data is "baked" into the saved game.

 

Files in a hak do take priority, though, so it's possible to override some types of file, or write a script that changes the saved game in Debug mode. It would help to know exactly what you're trying to do.

               
               

               
            

[Legacy_cleverwebhandle]

               

Then let me try again. I want to update a hak to use new models in an old save.


I came across a thread on GoG, where people were suggesting different custom modules. One was called "Eye of the Beholder". It has a custom Hak, but isn't directly compatible with CEP. However, there are a couple of armor parts from the CEP I wanted to use in my playthrough.


I can add the models to the hak successfully, as in, they appear in the toolset, and in a new game, I can modify armor to include the new pieces, but when I attempt to modify my stuff through a save made prior to adding them to the hak, they don't show up. I was wondering why this was. Is this a result of data being "baked" into the save?

               
               

               
            

[Legacy_SHOVA]

               

Saved games do not use new haks, they use the old that was saved when you saved the game. In order to get new hak content you need to start the module again from load mod, not load saved game.

               
               

               
            

[Legacy_cleverwebhandle]

               

That's what I needed to know. Unfortunate that you have to start all over, but I do thank you for your time.

               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Proleric]

               

Saved games do not use new haks, they use the old that was saved when you saved the game. In order to get new hak content you need to start the module again from load mod, not load saved game.

Not strictly true. As previously stated, haks are reloaded each time.


It is true that the saved game doesn't load any NEW haks, but the OP is talking about changes to an existing hak, as I understand it.


If models are added to a hak, but nothing in the saved game refers to those models, of course they won't show up. However, if the new models have the same name as ones already referenced, they will show up in the saved game. It's also possible to override 2da files in the hak, to make appearances in the saved game point to new models.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_SHOVA]

               

Fairly simple question - I've been playing around with taking certain player models from the CEP and adding it to a custom hak used for a single player module. I can make the modified Hak work in the toolset, and I can use the new stuff if starting a new game, but

saves made prior to changing the Hak appear to ignore the new models entirely. Is this by design, or is there a way to work around it?

Added to a new hak- not overriding existing content in a hak. It won't work in a saved game. There is no way around this.

               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Proleric]

               I'm reading that as "modified hak" not "new hak".
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_SHOVA]

               

Granted the definition is questionable- I read it as taking things from cep and "shoving it" into a custom hak. Which in itself is rather crazy to try, given that the cep is horrible at documentation and keeping things together in the set. What is being said later in the OP shows what is going on- it will show up fine in a new load up of the module- it won't show up in a saved game. Given that the custom hak with the cep content- does this, it therefore must add new content not over riding content.

 

To the OP, If you want to add overriding content the best way to do it is via the override folder. Adding it to the override will allow it to show up in saved, as well as every game from now on. Adding new content to a hak for a saved game will not show up in the saved game- It doesn't work that way. Yes there are a few things you can force to show up this way, but they for the most part show up "only" if they override the existing content.

 

As to playing with the cep: you might want to just use the entire package- due to how it was put together, there are parts that wont work properly without all of it. If that isn't what you are trying to achieve, perhaps you might try building a custom hak with the pre-cep content- very few things were actually made by the cep people- most of it is available on the vault released by the original author, some searching on the vault well worth it. If the CEP is too big for what you are looking for, you might want to try the Q. http://neverwinterva...bined/project-q

               
               

               
            

[Legacy_cleverwebhandle]

               

I'm not sure what the source of the confusion is. I really don't know how to be more clear.


I'm playing a custom module.

The module has a specific Hak.

I've made my way through a few hours of the module, having saved at several points.

The CEP has models I want that this Hak doesn't.

I'm taking models from the CEP and adding them to the Hak.

I'm recompiling the module to include the modified Hak (which includes the new models).

The added models appear in the toolset, and appear in a new game. They don't appear when loading from the aforementioned saves.


In any case, it appears I've got my answer, that if I want to use the new stuff I'll have to start over or dump the items into override. You're quite correct that the CEP is a mess, but NWN Explorer has been a wonderful tool in helping me track down what texture files I need and whatnot. I know the CEP is just a hodgepodge of random content, but I'm not entirely certain where some of the things I want come from and I'm not fond of the new vault, so I've been too lazy to search there for much.

I'll take a look at Project Q. I don't really know anything about it but the updated textures are intriguing.

               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Proleric]

               

The confusion arises because you don't say how you're adding the model to your module.

 

To me, it was always clear that you're not adding a new hak.

 

However, there are two ways to reference a new model from a module. Either the new model replaces an existing one (in which case it shows up in saved games) or else you are adding a new one, modifying a 2da to refer to it and making an instance in your module that uses that 2da line. In the latter case, the saved game can pick up the model and 2da from the hak, but not the instance, because the saved game contains its own version of all the templates and area instances.

 

The same is true if you use the override folder.

 

I imagine it's possible (though not straightforward) to hack the instance into a saved game if it were mission-critical.

               
               

               
            

[Legacy_SHOVA]

               

I'm curious why so many players seem dead set on keeping saved games, and wanting to change them either with new content or adding in new/better gear. With the exception of 3-4 Hall of Fame community made modules, nearly all the modules available to play, including the Bio-ware ones, are not written, or scripted well enough for this sort of practice to make that much of a difference. Given that one can save their character with all of it's gear at any time, and then use that saved character in a new load up of the same module, I have to wonder what is the point of keeping a saved game at all other than as a just in case it crashes, or if there is no re-spawn in the module, it dies. If I am adding new content I want to experience the entire module with that content. If said module has some sort of item, and level stripping scripting in it's beginning, that is easy enough to disable, or even work around. Nearly all of NWN modules plot steps are item based- meaning to get to the next step in the story your character needs x-item. Saving the PC with the item, still keeps the story progression for the PC, in most cases. Again the 3-4 Hall of Fame modules being the exception, as their scripting is a bit more robust.

 

cleverwebhandle, I think it is great you have started playing around with haks and the toolset, God knows we need more builders in this community. As someone who has been building since the initial release of NWN I can say with confidence don't worry about throwing out saved games, hak projects you have compiled, or even what you have been working on in the toolset. Every once in a while it helps to clean house, and start again.

 

I think we need a definition and short explanation of resources page for our new to the toolset people. NWN is the oddball of video games, where a module is not new content for a game, a hak is not hacking actual game play.