Custom Base Class Creation (Middlewater)

[Legacy_DM Frayne]

               

So I am in the middle of creating five custom base classes for my Native American themed PnP style campaign module ‘Middlewater’.  I am not using the PRC and don’t intend to as it contains too much stuff I do not need.  After a good deal of experiment and research I’m assuming the following is true (please correct me if I am wrong!):

 

You can add base classes to classes.2da but without replacing one of the original core classes you need to use an external character creator (e.g. CODI’s) to make it work.

 

You cannot add base spellcasting classes without replacing one of the vanilla spell-casters.

 

The hardcoded element seems to be that NWNs uses the particular line in classes.2da to determine what column will be used in spells.2da (i.e. bard, cleric, druid, paladin, ranger or wizard/sorcerer) and whether the magic is spontaneous or needs to be memorized.  

 

The Barbarian, Bard, Cleric (OR Druid), Fighter, Rogue, Sorcerer and Wizard are all going to be unavailable to players in my mod, changed a bit and then used as NPC classes.

 

The player classes include:

 

Brave (a DEX fighter type) – can be added as base class (but might also replace the Monk if I decide to not use an external character creator).  All PCs do 1-4 levels of Brave before they can move to another class.

Scout (a primitive rogue/hunter type) – can be added as base class.  

Medicine Man (priest type) – replacing cleric or druid (have not decided which yet)

Sorcerer (mixed priest/wizard type) – rebuilt from the Paladin classes.2da line

Two-Spirit (bard type with very different spells/feats) – rebuilt from the Ranger classes.2da line.

 

The ball ache is that I wanted my Medicine Man, Sorcerer and Two-Spirit to all be spontaneous casters but I really do not want to replace either the Bard or original Sorcerer as I need those classes for NPCs… and a third spontaneous caster replacement class is not available anyway.  

 

Any observations would be most welcome… have I completely missed something?

               
               

               
            

[Legacy_MerricksDad]

               

For my custom 4th edition mod, I had to make every class a sorcerer, based on how the sorcerer class is internally hardwired. If you want to give interesting click-to-use powers, you can also go with feats. With a combination, you can create some powers which automatically regenerate over time, and others which regenerate over rest. By doing this, I gave all the characters a gigantic power tree system from which to pick. The classes became primarily click-to-use characters in this way.

 

One drawback to this is that you break the built-in DetermineCombatRound call by modifying spells in this way.

 

Just remember that the engine can only apply 3 classes to any given unit.

 

If you want three classes which perform similar spontaneous casting, but you want to somehow separate them, I suggest creating a spell progression which follows a set of feats. Simplify your base spells to something they can all do, and then modify for feats. You could also detect other spells the character has and modify spells in the spell script based on what other spells are ready.

 

You could even name the actual class something more generic, and have the characters themselves just ignore the title on the character sheet, and act accordingly to what they chose to be.


If you have two spells for two different spontaneous classes, you could think of the two spells as the same, modified for feats taken by the individual. In effect, all spontaneous casters are sorcerers. All learned casters are wizards. Their progression is what defines them in the end. You can have specialist wizards, so you should also have specialist sorcerers.


Instead of having a level 1 ice spell, and a level 2 ice spell, just give them a level 1 ice spell, and modify its effects with feats. Once you pick a feat, that sets you on a path to that spell's progression. This makes it so you could have a multi-class sorcerer/sorcerer by taking spells and feats which look more like Medicine Man/Two-Spirit combinations.


I was able to create Warlord powers for my warrior, and toss in Paladin spontaneous effects as well. This went along perfectly with my custom PNP token system. My players loved it because they could easily create bladesingers and thugs (fighter/thief) without having to actually multi-class. They got to build their own 4E style attacks and play their characters in a 3E system.


I then modified the spell levels to act differently. Cantrips stayed extremely low power forever. First level spells progressed to replace 9th level spells by the time you were 16-18. Second level spells were always a level or two stronger, like having 3E style Maximize/Heighten etc applied to them already without having to use those feats (which I hate). A similar ice spell in 2nd level compared to 1st level was simply +1d6 then adjusted for extra modifiers from feats/gear/etc. Third level spells were standard high power spells (like 4E daily powers), which were basically +2d6 and additional modifiers. Anything higher spell slot was reserved for special level-dependent spells which nobody should have access to in lower spell levels, much like level 10 spells are derived from feats in NWN. This whole system also required a change to spell slot gain, as well as magical items giving bonus spell slots.


Basically, you can focus all your energy into writing a SINGLE spell/power system, and have characters pick and choose EXACTLY what they want to do. The harder part was balance, but I already had that done before I started the NWN system.


If you'd like to see the system basics, I have it in PNP form. I'm totally open to sharing it. As written, it works for the more gestalt power 4E characters. Simply reduce the system by a single point to create powers for 3E characters.

               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Shadooow]

               

nwncx_patch plugin that is shipped with Community Patch 1.71 (or 72beta) allows to select nonstandard base class in character creation, this is nwncx so its client issue which means you dont need to have 1.71 installed on your server, just that players needs it installed + run game via NWNCX

               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Failed.Bard]

               

  Most NPCs are actually better handled by making them wizards, rather than sorcerers, since that allows for the exact number of uses of the spells given them to be set.  The vanilla AI tends to spam cast a specific spell of each level, ignoring all others, until all uses of that spell level are used up, and per use setting for wizard class spells avoids that.

  That would also serve to leave the sorcerer class open for you to modify for your custom class.

               
               

               
            

[Legacy_DM Frayne]

               

Many thanks for the replies!

 

I can add to my initial observations that the Spell Stat seems to be hardcoded to the classes.2da line as well.  So any spellcasting replacement that uses the Ranger line, for instance, has spell level use determined by WIS even if you reset the primary stat to something else.  Please correct me if I am wrong!

 

I’m getting pretty close to what I want with the concession that I must give up on the idea of choosing a spell stat and spontaneous casting.  

 

@MerricksDad

You lost me around paragraph 2 or 3 '> I’m sure it was fantastic but I’m late to the party… in fact I’m the guy who was at the party to begin with, then went out for a kebab for 10 years, then turned up again to milk the last glass out of all the empty wine boxes.  I think I’m going to compromise a bit and stick with simple.

 

@Shadooow

I’m assuming this basically does the same job as an external character creator, then.  Sounds great but for my purposes it’s not a major headache for my players to submit an externally created character.  Hell they are going to have to remake them anyway… levels 1-3 will be using a child model while they go through the Prologue / Tutorial.

 

@Failed Bard

Replacing the wizard or sorcerer is no bueno for me because they both use the same column in spells.2da, which is my primary means of controlling class spell access.  Also most NPC spell-casters and all bosses in my mod will always be DM controlled by me or a second so the AI is not an issue.

               
               

               
            

[Legacy_3RavensMore]

               

I've nothing to add save that it sounds like a really interesting project and setting.

               
               

               
            

[Legacy_DM Frayne]

               

@3RavensMore

Cheers... I'll be looking for playtesters, another DM and eventually some players in the coming months. But as for now... back to my spreadheets.

               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Failed.Bard]

               

  This might not be of any use to you, but I found that cleric is actually the casting class that allows the most options for making unique caster types, because of the domain spells.  Removing the bulk of the cleric spells from being selectable, then filling in the domains.2da spell lists for each domain allows for very specific "spell path" type handling of the class, even if it's just a single spell per level per domain.

 The turn undead class ability fires a standard spell script, so that can easily be disabled, or customized to have a specific power based on the domains selected

 

  There's also the PRC method for handling spells, which is via feat based casting.  That bypasses the hard-coded casting restrictions completely, though does require a bit more setup, and background scripting to handle the pseudo-spellbook.

               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Drewskie]

               

 I’m the guy who was at the party to begin with, then went out for a kebab for 10 years, then turned up again to milk the last glass out of all the empty wine boxes.

 

Oh no... there are at least a few Casks of Amontillado left.

               
               

               
            

[Legacy_DM Frayne]

               

Ran into a bit of an issue in that the external character creator (THIS ONE) does not seem to reference custom cls_feat_*.2das,  so any bonus feats I set for first level are not applied. This is curious in that it does implement racial and skill changes made in other 2das.  All I can think is that the PRC implements base class feats in a different way.  It’s a bit disappointing but given that mine is a DMed campaign I don’t need to automate everything and can fix this individually in LETO, or maybe apply a creature skin with the feats on client entry if that’s possible.

 

@Failed.Bard Cheers!  I’ve used domains in the manner you describe before although it won’t be necessary this time out.  I have chosen to use the cleric rather than the druid as I want spontaneous heals (that may be hardcoded or part of the scripting, not looked yet).  Turn undead will be disabled. I shouldn’t need to go the feat route of delivering spells if my plan works.

 

@Drewskie I came here for help and solidarity not thinly veiled threats of immurement '>