Author Topic: Open a Tileset to Examine Tile ID's?  (Read 394 times)

Legacy_BelowTheBelt

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Open a Tileset to Examine Tile ID's?
« on: April 04, 2014, 04:47:05 pm »


               

Is there a utility that will enable me to open up a tileset and examine the different tile ID's used?  For example, if a tileset has 250 different tiles, they'll each be assigned a unique number (the tile ID).


 


If I can get more information about the tile, great, but at this point, I just need to be able to quickly scan through the range of tile IDs that the tileset creator used for each tile in the tileset.  


 


The gff editor only displays the tiles used in a given area.  I'm ideally looking for something that cracks the tileset file open and lets me peruse its contents.


 


Thanks!



               
               

               
            

Legacy_MerricksDad

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Open a Tileset to Examine Tile ID's?
« Reply #1 on: April 04, 2014, 05:20:18 pm »


               

SET files are just plain text. You can open them with notepad. You can also use a community SET editor


 


http://nwvault.ign.c...r.detail&id=620


 


Edit:


 


I believe SET files are also valid format for window INI readers



               
               

               
            

Legacy_Zwerkules

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Open a Tileset to Examine Tile ID's?
« Reply #2 on: April 04, 2014, 06:58:52 pm »


               

If you have opened an area in the toolset place the mouse over a tile and you'll see its name at the bottom of the window.


Let's say you used the castle interior tileset and the tile you're looking for is tin01_h02_02.


Open tin01.set with any text editor and search for tin01_h02_02. You'll see that it is tile number 148.


               
               

               
            

Legacy_BelowTheBelt

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Open a Tileset to Examine Tile ID's?
« Reply #3 on: April 04, 2014, 08:10:56 pm »


               

I DL'd the SET editor, but couldn't find any set files.  Where are those?


 


What I'm actually trying to do is identify tile values that 'aren't' used by a tileset - a tile ID that exists outside the range used by the tileset so I can get a null tile to appear in-game through the gff-editor.


 


By knowing which ones are in-use, I can start trying to identify ones outside that range. 


 


Specifically, the Exterior, Rural tileset.


 


It seems to have a range of 1 - 800 tile IDs (not sure if they're all in use, though), possilby higher IDs.  Too many for me to try to find the needle in the haystack, or even if one exists.



               
               

               
            

Legacy_Lord Sullivan

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Open a Tileset to Examine Tile ID's?
« Reply #4 on: April 04, 2014, 08:58:54 pm »


               

NWNExplorer v1.63 Will let you view those unique ID's, but will not let you view the tile itself and will not let you edit the Area file



               
               

               
            

Legacy_MerricksDad

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Open a Tileset to Examine Tile ID's?
« Reply #5 on: April 04, 2014, 09:05:28 pm »


               

NWNExplorer will let you export those files to your override directory. If you have HotU installed and want to look at the rural set, then the file you are looking for is found under:


 


NWN:HotU Main Data > data/xp2_tiles.bif > Information files > ttr01.set


 


The tile count in that file is listed as 283


 


If it is Castle exterior, rural you are after, try:


 


NWN:1.69 Patch Data > data/xp3.bif > Information files > tno01.set


 


The tile count in that file is listed as 1240


 


Examine the set file layout so you can learn to add new tiles properly. I don't suggest adding any in the middle.



               
               

               
            

Legacy_Zwerkules

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Open a Tileset to Examine Tile ID's?
« Reply #6 on: April 04, 2014, 09:45:21 pm »


               


I DL'd the SET editor, but couldn't find any set files.  Where are those?


 


What I'm actually trying to do is identify tile values that 'aren't' used by a tileset - a tile ID that exists outside the range used by the tileset so I can get a null tile to appear in-game through the gff-editor.


 




 


I think you're going at this the wrong way. If you want to add an empty tile add it after the last tile entry of the set. There were a few unused tiles in the castle exterior tileset which weren't used because they weren't finished. However some people fixed these tiles and made them useable.


Just add your tile after the last entry or if you are using Project Q's tileset or other expansions for the castle rural tileset after the last entry in the set file of those haks. Then use the ITP tool or a GFF editor to add a palette entry for your tile put the files in a top-hak and you're done.


               
               

               
            

Legacy_Bannor Bloodfist

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Open a Tileset to Examine Tile ID's?
« Reply #7 on: April 05, 2014, 01:10:38 am »


               

Since the tileset.SET file is a text file, and since it can be scanned by almost anything, there are multiple ways to search for what content IS used.  I think I have a macro written by OMB for open office (I am searching but this will take me a bit to find it).  This macro auto-sorts the names and exports them into an alpha sorted list.  From that, a human has to read the list to find what you are looking for.


 


Tile names have multiple basic foundation naming conventions.  If you use the omnibus - one of the stickied topics in this forum, you can find the various dialogs on the naming conventions.  They all end up being a convenience and nothing really more, and MANY custom authors over the years have refused to follow what Bioware started out with, thus the naming convention(s) likely will not follow through on any specific custom content author.


 


Basically, they go as follows:


 


txxxx_xyy_zz  where xxxx is the tileset's base name, this for Bioware always follows "t" for tile, with a 4 letter combo that has a relation to interior or exterior and may be adjusted to match a particular set, ie tc (tile city) some number as in tcn01 (meaning first city, interior set that Bioware created, that 5 letter combo is then followed with an underscore as in "tcn where "n" is interior, or "e" for exterior, so tcn01 is the first city interior set created.  Another example would be tde01 which is Bioware's first desert exterior "d" for desert, "e" for exterior. 


 


So, you have the first 5 letter/number categories basically covered but even with those 'tips' things can still be different according to who created the set, etc.


 


Next up, you have a 3 character bit for the actual tile name, IE  tcn01_"a01" is the first tile in the "a" series, which can mean any number of things, but typically the letter groups up to "i" are basically covered in all sets, a-f are typically various 'terrains', each letter meaning a different terrain.  So, each tileset typically has multiple terrains like, grass, sand, dirt, mud, stone, etc, each of those terrains will contain any number of tiles depending on how much time was spent to add variation etc.


 


Finally you have the final 2 character grouping as in 01, - 99  which are the variations of that specific tile.  So, if you have a tile that is say a corner in a room, and that corner has 3 different variations (ie one corner might have a column, or a bookshelf, or some other difference, it will be a different number.


 


I can't open toolset to explain with exact examples but a tilename of tcn01_a01_01, tcn01_a01_02, tcn01_a01_03 would mean that you have 3 different variants of a given tile that will fit into that exact location.  I can't remember EVER seeing a given tile having 99 different variants, but I would assume that someone somewhere named something that way simply because they were not following the given convention by Bioware.


 


Now, you will notice that each tileset also has various crossers, roads, streams, corridors, whatever, these typically fall into the letter groups g-k or so... so a corridor might take tcn01_h01_01 through tcn01_h99_99 (never seen, but is possible!)


 


The letter groups from 'm' onwards, are typically used for various groups.  IE a 2x2 house, or a single feature like a 1x1 house, might use the letter group M for example.  Here there is less and less convention in place, and it is much harder to say that a given letter group follows a specific format.  The other issue with groups is how their various members are named.  IE a 2x2 house could be named tde01_m01_01, tde01_m01_02, tde01_m01_03, tde01_m01_04 OR it might be named as tde01_m01_01, tde01_n01_01, tde01_m01_02, tde01_n01_02 again for that single group.  Notice two different letter combinations.  So, you may have groups for your various terrains that include letter groupings from the letter l or m through y. 


 


The final letter group, 'Z' is reserved by 98% of authors, for edge tiles.  This is problematic as well.  You don't need edge tiles for every single tile in a given set, but you will need multiple edge tiles to match up with various possible combinations.  Edge tiles are handled in the edge.2da for a given tileset, and are NOT included in the .SET file.  Various rules apply to edge tiles and is a different topic for conversation entirely.


 


Now, when folks state that a given set contains "xxx" number of tiles, some folks include the edge tiles, others only include the total number of tiles listed in the .SET file.  Since there are so many ways to name tiles, and some individuals insist on creating their OWN rules instead of following convention, you end up with any various name you can think of that fits into the 12 character limit for a given tile name, and yes, 12 characters is the max for safe usage in toolset and game, but you will again find folks that insist on doing things their own way.  And NO, I will not mention names, as I don't wish to get into flame wars etc.


 


Anyway, if you look at tcn01.set file, you find that it contains the definitions of 408 total tiles, starting with tcn01_a02_01 and the last tile listed is amp01_i08_01... this is odd, as it shows that the actual tilename does NOT always follow the name of the set, in this case, in patch 1.67 - 1.69, Thrikreen added some extra tiles to various tilesets, in this case an ampitheater (thus the amp01 bit) which contains a total of 72 tiles for a SINGLE group.


 


Inside 99% of the tilesets out there, they do NOT follow a given, straight up, alpha sorting of the tiles in the .set either, any given tile, say b03_01 might immediately be followed by c01_01, which is then followed by b04_01, and then maybe an a23_01 etc.. >set files do not require an alpha sorting, that is only needed by humans... and if you FORCE a change of the .SET file to make it alpha sorted, it will break anything created with that set, prior to the change.  So, unless the given tileset has never been released before, you can't change the order of the tiles in the .set file.  Back when CTP was releasing NEW tilesets, even when they were based off of original Bioware tiles, we renamed the entire set right at the start so we would NOT affect original areas or tilesets released by other folks, anyway, we tended to alpha sort things to help me, the qa guy, to "find" and therefore "fix" various tiles in a given set we were working on.  However, over time, we also ended up no longer alpha sorting  towards the end of the development cycle as it is just tooo difficult to keep recreating testing areas to verify that all tiles are there physically and that each one actually works.  Anyway, that is a side subject as well.


 


I am still searching through thousands of various files attempting to find the various macros that OMB created for me back in the day, but I do recall that to make those macros useful in the NWN world, also required some extra files that may no longer be found on the vault since it's various collapses in the past and/or removals of files by original authors in the past etc... regardless, the actual sorting util feature should still be useful on the .SET file itself to help you along.  I will be back as soon as I find the file(s) and provide a dropfile link to them.  Stay tuned.


 


Edit:  Ok, no luck.  As I have mentioned in the past, I lost my main backups of the CTP working stuff, more than 2 years ago.  I MAY have a copy of the scripts that OMB created on one of the thousand or so CD's that I have, but since I was not very organized on those cd's, meaning NON of them have labels, I am not likely to spend several hours, loading a stack of cd's just to figure out it is not one of the ones that may have the scripts on it.  Sorry.


 


Someone here, should be more than capable of creating a script in whatever language they choose to use, that can read through the .SET file, scan for [tilexxx] and grab the following line for the tile name, then sort the results and provide a single listing of every tile in a given .SET file for you.  The rest would be up to you to manually look through and determine which tiles are still available, and you have to decide if you wish to follow the standard naming convention, OR just create your own name for your own tiles, and add them in as needed. 


 


The individual definition of each tile, gives it's positional information as in what tiles can or should be located around it, not by tilename, but by tile type, as in terrain type data etc.  You find the tilename, followed by walkmesh type (this is typically not even used and can almost always be ignored as in walkmesh=msb01 is found in a huge number of tiles, and I believe was a left over for when bioware intended to do things differently than they finally did, IE, not really used, but that definition line still has to be included) anyway, msb01 folowed by the topleft, height of topleft, topright, height of topright, bottom left, bottom right.  Those 4 main lines with their various height definitions, define the tile types that surround the given tile you are working on.  Below those 8 lines of text, you get 4 lines for any crosser information that may or may not be needed, then light definitions, should be there, but are not always filled in, any animation loops, always defined, but not always used, the number of doors, any specific sound files needed, the path node, and it's orientation, the sight node and it's orientation, there is another node type but I can't remember, then the final, minimap name for that given tile.


 


You macro only needs to find the [Tilexxx] line, and grab the following line to get the name, fairly simple even if it is beyond my current skill level.



               
               

               
            

Legacy_Michael DarkAngel

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Open a Tileset to Examine Tile ID's?
« Reply #8 on: April 05, 2014, 03:08:59 am »


               


What I'm actually trying to do is identify tile values that 'aren't' used by a tileset - a tile ID that exists outside the range used by the tileset so I can get a null tile to appear in-game through the gff-editor.


 


By knowing which ones are in-use, I can start trying to identify ones outside that range. 


 


Specifically, the Exterior, Rural tileset.


 


It seems to have a range of 1 - 800 tile IDs (not sure if they're all in use, though), possilby higher IDs.  Too many for me to try to find the needle in the haystack, or even if one exists.




 


If I am understanding you correctly...


 


NWN doesn't work that way.  There are no null tiles.  Generally when a CC author creates an add-on to a tileset or a completely new tileset, every tile the author includes is meant to be used in one way or another.  As a module builder it is by no means necessary to use every tile, but every tile in the tileset you are building with can be used.  Any kind of a null tile would need to be included by the author.


 


HTH


 


icon_zdevil.gif


 MDA


               
               

               
            

Legacy_Zwerkules

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Open a Tileset to Examine Tile ID's?
« Reply #9 on: April 05, 2014, 08:26:30 am »


               


Basically, they go as follows:


 


txxxx_xyy_zz  where xxxx is the tileset's base name, this for Bioware always follows "t" for tile, with a 4 letter combo that has a relation to interior or exterior and may be adjusted to match a particular set, ie tc (tile city) some number as in tcn01 (meaning first city, interior set that Bioware created, that 5 letter combo is then followed with an underscore as in "tcn where "n" is interior, or "e" for exterior, so tcn01 is the first city interior set created.  Another example would be tde01 which is Bioware's first desert exterior "d" for desert, "e" for exterior. 


 




 


Sorry Bannor, I have to correct this as you made some mistakes here.


tcn01 is not an interior tileset, but an exterior tileset. As you said the "t" is for tile or tileset and the "c" is for city, but the "n" has nothing to do with interior or the "e" in tde01 with exterior. The "n" stands for "Neverwinter". tcn01 is tileset city Neverwinter. Others are for example tca01 (tileset city arabian), tcm01 (tileset city medieval) and tcr01 (tileset city roman).


tde01 is not the desert tileset, but the evil dungeon tileset. The "d" is for dungeon and there are several tilesets starting with "td" like tde01 (tileset dungeon evil), tdm01 (tileset dungeon mines), tdc01 (tileset dungeon crypt), tds01 (tileset dungeon sewers) and tdr01 (tileset dungeon ruins).


A few others start with "tt" which stands for tileset terrain, ttr01 (tileset terrain rural), tts01 (tileset terrain snow), ttd01 (tileset terrain desert) and ttf01 (tileset terrain forest).


Basically every tileset which starts with "tc" and "tt" is an exterior tileset while tilesets starting with "ti" and "td" are interior tilesets.


For my city tilesets I followed Biowares examples, but for other exterior tilesets I didn't follow them because if you include the "t" for terrain you only have one letter left which isn't enough and it is pretty obvious that they have exterior terrain anyway. So I leave out the second "t" and add two letters to describe the kind of the terrain like trm01 (tileset rural mountains) and tfm01 (tileset forest mountains, Baba Yaga's Ravencast forest).


The tilesets that came with patch 1.69 only follow Biowares examples by starting the name with a "t". tno01 stands for Tir nan og (should be spelled Tir na nog by the way which would make it tnn01 '<img'> ). Then there's twc03 which is tileset wyvern crown number 3 (guess they had planned a few more), tsw01 is tileset steam works and tdt01 (the sea caves) might follow Bioware's example of naming tilesets because it starts with "td" for tileset dungeon, but I have no idea what the last "t" stands for. Maybe they used the letter following "s" (sea caves) because "s" was already used for the sewers tileset and "c" for crypts.


 


As you said most tileset creators don't follow Bioware's naming conventions. A few that are following them are CTP, CODI and Six.


There's for example tcee0 which I guess stands for tileset city exterior elven and tced0 tileset city exterior desert.


CODI uses thv01 (tileset hive) for their sigil interior tileset and tps01 (tileset planescape) for the sigil city tileset.


Six uses twl01 (tileset wild lands) and ttw01 (tileset terrain wood or wild woods).


               
               

               
            

Legacy_MerricksDad

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Open a Tileset to Examine Tile ID's?
« Reply #10 on: April 05, 2014, 01:42:04 pm »


               

Not that it matters at all, but I do my tilesets like this:


 


T_1234_c_wxyz_00


 


Tile topleft topright bottomleft bottomright center top left right bottom two-digit-variety


 


I have a ton of crossers, of which can be named the same as terrain, and I have transitions from just about everything to everything. I find this is the only system I have ever come up with that fits the 16 character limit, but lets me have an easily readable file pattern.


I also orient all my custom tiles so that the lowest elevation is always in the upper left corner. This lets me run my custom program to create a SET file, which dynamically calculates the pathing node to use. It also lets me sort my tile files easily.


@BelowTheBelt, if you are trying something unique, I might be able to help you get off the ground. I'm working on a community tileset editor (no 3d support) that lets you do a lot of tile poking, including increasing tile placement height in a way the toolset cannot do. Saves a lot of time doing it with a GFF editor. Works well with random flying islands, or the placement of pillars across a bottomless underdark chasm.



               
               

               
            

Legacy_Bannor Bloodfist

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Open a Tileset to Examine Tile ID's?
« Reply #11 on: April 10, 2014, 12:17:25 am »


               


Sorry Bannor, I have to correct this as you made some mistakes here.


tcn01 is not an interior tileset, but an exterior tileset. As you said the "t" is for tile or tileset and the "c" is for city, but the "n" has nothing to do with interior or the "e" in tde01 with exterior. The "n" stands for "Neverwinter". tcn01 is tileset city Neverwinter. Others are for example tca01 (tileset city arabian), tcm01 (tileset city medieval) and tcr01 (tileset city roman).


tde01 is not the desert tileset, but the evil dungeon tileset. The "d" is for dungeon and there are several tilesets starting with "td" like tde01 (tileset dungeon evil), tdm01 (tileset dungeon mines), tdc01 (tileset dungeon crypt), tds01 (tileset dungeon sewers) and tdr01 (tileset dungeon ruins).


A few others start with "tt" which stands for tileset terrain, ttr01 (tileset terrain rural), tts01 (tileset terrain snow), ttd01 (tileset terrain desert) and ttf01 (tileset terrain forest).


Basically every tileset which starts with "tc" and "tt" is an exterior tileset while tilesets starting with "ti" and "td" are interior tilesets.


For my city tilesets I followed Biowares examples, but for other exterior tilesets I didn't follow them because if you include the "t" for terrain you only have one letter left which isn't enough and it is pretty obvious that they have exterior terrain anyway. So I leave out the second "t" and add two letters to describe the kind of the terrain like trm01 (tileset rural mountains) and tfm01 (tileset forest mountains, Baba Yaga's Ravencast forest).


The tilesets that came with patch 1.69 only follow Biowares examples by starting the name with a "t". tno01 stands for Tir nan og (should be spelled Tir na nog by the way which would make it tnn01 '<img'> ). Then there's twc03 which is tileset wyvern crown number 3 (guess they had planned a few more), tsw01 is tileset steam works and tdt01 (the sea caves) might follow Bioware's example of naming tilesets because it starts with "td" for tileset dungeon, but I have no idea what the last "t" stands for. Maybe they used the letter following "s" (sea caves) because "s" was already used for the sewers tileset and "c" for crypts.


 


As you said most tileset creators don't follow Bioware's naming conventions. A few that are following them are CTP, CODI and Six.


There's for example tcee0 which I guess stands for tileset city exterior elven and tced0 tileset city exterior desert.


CODI uses thv01 (tileset hive) for their sigil interior tileset and tps01 (tileset planescape) for the sigil city tileset.


Six uses twl01 (tileset wild lands) and ttw01 (tileset terrain wood or wild woods).




OOooopppssss...


 


That's what I get for not double checking tileset names vs actual tileset involved this time around.  Oh well, the rest of what I said still holds true though, the only issue being what the first 4 or 5 characters stand for, and with custom content authors, the naming is wild now.  Few, other than the ones mentioned, even attempt to follow the naming that Bioware originally intended as I said.  No real worries, as long as you keep to the 12 character limit, you can call your tileset whatever you wish.  The conventions, just made/make it easier to find a given tile in a given terrain.  The rest of it was just explaining what the various bits or sections of the individual tilename are used for.  4-5 characters for tileset name, followed by underscore, followed by letter with up to 99 numbers for that letter, followed by underscore and a final 2 characters, meaning 99 possible variations for a given tile in the set. 


 


Anyway, that entire section was NOT a direct answer to the original question, but just goes to show that the original question really doesn't make a lot of sense to find an 'un-used' section to add your own tiles.  Best way to do that is just use the numbered bits, in the middle, to match cover tiles that tie into that particular terrain type, whatever that terrain may happen to be.  OR to just use an unused letter group for your additions to a given set.  Either one works, so would just adding variation numbers for a given tile, except that it might confuse folks as the variations are 99% of the time used to point to a single tile's variations.