base mod?

[Legacy_christinetooley]

                I'm newly returning from a long stay at NWN 2 and am planning on using NWN1 as a 3d virtual table top for mapping. I can see all the appearances in the toolset but 80% of them are not available on the palette without manually adding them. Am I missing something?  Is there a base mod with appearances already added to palette? 

Thanks for suffering a re-learning noob! 
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Tarot Redhand]

               A quick question - are you using one or more haks? You don't say in your initial message. Usually (the CEP is one of the big exceptions) in the case of things not having blueprints it is because the person using the haks forgot to import an associated erf file. Also can you expand a little on your mapping requirements. I say this because I have released a package called map mats (link in my sig) that is designed to satisfy one particular type of mapping requirement.

TR
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_christinetooley]

               I'm just looking to make towns, villages, mines, dungeons, wilderness encounters where the monsters and PCs are static and only moveable by me. This is for face to face, table top play. I will be projecting it on another screen to be used as reference mapping alone. No scripts, no animations, ect...I have only tried the CEP, and I believe it already has all the HAKS associated with it, yes? Don't need to import ERFs?
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_henesua]

               Project Q has some great tilesets, a base module, and ERFs for all the blueprints.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_The Amethyst Dragon]

               There are many times when a hak with new creature/placeable/etc. appearances does not have blueprints pre-made.  I've seen it happen with later versions of the CEP due to the huge amount of models/appearances available, and I tend to go this route myself when I release things...as a builder, my personal preference is to not clutter up the blueprint palettes with things I don't need right away or things with stats/descriptions that may not work for others.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Bannor Bloodfist]

               

christinetooley wrote...

 I'm newly returning from a long stay at NWN 2 and am planning on using NWN1 as a 3d virtual table top for mapping. I can see all the appearances in the toolset but 80% of them are not available on the palette without manually adding them. Am I missing something?  Is there a base mod with appearances already added to palette? 

Thanks for suffering a re-learning noob! 

The full answer is that NO, not all appearances are available at all.  The reason behind this is the 16k max total that the game engine can handle.  When you log into a PW especially, as a DM, there are hundreds more pallette entries that are required.  If everything had a pallette entry, the total count would well exceed 64k, which is more than double what it takes to make the game and/or server crash.

This has been a problem for a LONG time.  We, users, dm's, builders, cc artists etc, have begged and begged for that number to be expanded but according to Bioware (before they completely dropped support) it was not possible without a complete re-write of the main engine to use 64 bit addressing.  That would have eliminated well over half the users at the time who at that time were struggling with Vista, and could not yet get XP64 to work correctlly.

Anyway, what it all means is that you are stuck with a max of just under the 16k limit 16*1024 == 16384 - 1 I think so 16,383.  The number may actually be a bit lower than that, and it may be possible to find that answer using the way-back-machine to search the old forums for discussions about the 16k limit on the pallette.

Basically, if you don't have a specific requirement and need for that specific pallette entry, then don't add it.  Believe me, we are all frustrated by those issues.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Wall3T]

               not to jump in, but i wasnt aware of that. so basicaly for every blueprint i make and add to the toolset palette it *does* create additional requirements for the module to run? i was under the impression the system doesnt "technically" have a limit
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_The Amethyst Dragon]

               

oOKyeOo wrote...

not to jump in, but i wasnt aware of that. so basicaly for every blueprint i make and add to the toolset palette it *does* create additional requirements for the module to run? i was under the impression the system doesnt "technically" have a limit

Basically, there are 2 limits of 16k(ish).

The first is the module resource limit.  This is files that become part of the module file itself when they are saved.  It's everything you find in the NWN/modules/temp0 folder when you have the module open in the toolset.  Every area adds 3 files (resources), every script adds 2 files, every blueprint (creature, placeable, item, merchant, trigger, waypoint, encounter, door, and sound) adds 1 file, every conversation adds 1 file...it adds up quickly.

This first limit can be worked around by adding blueprints and scripts you're not going to be changing to a hak file and associating that hak with the module, then removing those resources files from the module itself.  I think there's a limit of 16k files inside each hak, but you can have multiple haks for this purpose.

The second is the palette limit.  There a limit of 16k total blueprints in the game palletes...this means all palletes a DM could use with the Creator, and it includes both module blueprints and those saved in haks.  This doesn't matter for the toolset or for players in the module when it's running, but if this limit is passed and a DM logs into that module, it can crash the DM client (and possibly the game).
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_henesua]

               Yes, AD is correct about the two limits. Its a PITA that PWs face, and why some of us are obsessed with resource efficiency.

A small detail that might be worth noting, not all scripts produce 2 resources, because scripts without a main or starting conditional do not compile. Furthermore only compiled scripts are used by the module so you could take measures at efficiency by only including NCS files in a released module.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Wall3T]

               thanks AD and Henesua, thats very informative for what ive been doing. if id known it sooner i couldve taken certain precautions to limit what i need (npc, and scripts). im using cep, but due to a glitch i had, all placeable pallette objects were gone. So i was left with a fresh pallete to choose what i wanted. i find it much easier since im only grabbing what i need
               
               

               

                     Modifié par oOKyeOo, 02 octobre 2013 - 03:40 .