Reducing a tileset without breaking already built areas

[Legacy_s e n]

               i think i remember in the past i fixed corrupted are files using some gff editor, maybe the java one
anyway aside that, Bannor is 100% right saying what you're trying to do is pure hell, just stop it and replicate your areas with other tilesets, cuz you'll never succeed on what you're doing
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_TheOneBlackRider]

               Hm.. sad, but that's the way it works!
Thanks alot for that huge reply, Bannor, which did answer about all my questions asked within my entry post. And, of course, a general thanks to all, who took the time to answer.

If I remember right, I used that "Modified GFF Editor" by roboius to edit the .are back then.

So, I guess, I will create seperated set-files, which use the original HAKs to draw upon.  I'll report.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par TheOneBlackRider, 11 mars 2012 - 10:39 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_TheOneBlackRider]

               Hello again out there!

I need more help, please. I am creating 3 tilesets with autum-, summer- and winter-only (cobble not removed). Reducing the set this way cuts down the loading from about 60 sec to 30 sec (on my machine: 2 GIG RAM), so it's a good improvement.

Now, I compared the numbers of groups and tiles to Friedeyes "Worm Summer Only"-set and found that group-wise, I'm pretty close to that count, but I still have 4400 tiles, while Friedeyes has about 2500 (and thus loads even faster).
I probaly have missed some groups (only took out those clearly labeled winter or autum), but that wouldn't be 2000 tiles!

So, my guess is, that another big hump is the terrain with it's variations. BUT how do I get rid of them (eg. winter and autum terrain) easily? The .Set File Editor can remove the entry, but won't remove the according tiles. If I find out manually, which one is the according model (+ it's variations) and remove those entries, the entries are not renumbered. So it would be something like [TILE0], [TILE1], then deleted entries, then [TILE6], [TILE7], ... and that probably won't work, right?

So, is there a tool or a trick, which manages this = removing terrains + the according tiles/models with its variations? (Ihaven't found anything regarding this.)

Thanks
               
               

               

                     Modifié par TheOneBlackRider, 17 mars 2012 - 04:30 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_s e n]

               its not that easy, with the set editor you can select tiles of a given terrain, or a combination of terrains, or crossers, a given height etc... fact is if you do it, you must remember that certain groups contain tiles of the terrain you want to erase and eventually other tiles that dont have that terrain. its tricky, and you should start by deleting the groups 1 by 1, then using the tile selector to delete all entries of the terrain you dont want. then you should be safe
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Bannor Bloodfist]

               One thing to remember with that seteditor b085, is that it hates, or does not at all recognize, ANYTHING from 1.67 tilesets correctly.  

Pathnodes can get wiped, extra settings on grass gets lost, etc.  The grass bit is Not a real big deal, but the pathnodes MIGHT screw you up pretty good.  Seteditor does NOT recognize the CASE of the entries, and converts everything to uppercase on pathnodes, sight nodes etc, it doesn't recognize the lower case versions of the various nodes at all.  

It has some other issues too, but I can't recall them off the top of my head.

As Sen mentioned, remove the groups that you don't want/need first.  THEN save, test etc, then remove the terrains using seteditor and let it handle the renumbering.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_TheOneBlackRider]

               Thanks again for your help. Now I get an idea, why Friedeyes only reduced it to one version (summer)! '>

I kept on tinkering with recovering areas messed up due to this reduced tileset and found, that's it's not that work- intensive as it might look. Of course, if an area is pretty simple, a rebuild is definetly the better way. But we have some areas, which are heavily designed with lots of placeables, triggers aso. and these would take ages to rebuild.

I did the following: I opened the (now) messy area within the toolset and wrote down the coordination of the wrong tiles (and calculated the according entries within the .are-file). I then closed that area and used "Modified GFF Editor" by roboius to directly edit the according .are in the temp0-directory of NWN. I just replaced the tile ID with a standard terrain-ID, eg. forestfloor fall is 2. After that, I reopened the area and was able to make those fixes = put in the original tiles.

With this in mind, I probaly will not further reduce those splitted sets, because it would mess up the terrain-IDs and thus, fixing is probably impossible (a rebuild the only way).

I'll keep you on track with my experiences.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par TheOneBlackRider, 18 mars 2012 - 08:15 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_wyldhunt1]

               If you have a huge list of areas and fixes to make, you might be able to make use of something like this:
http://social.biowar...2/index/8671187
I've never tried it, as I've never needed to make any mass changes to my mod.
It'd probably be a bit of work getting your script set up, but the script would then fix all of your areas at one time (if you coded it correctly).
Or, I could be completely off base since I've never used it. '>
               
               

               

                     Modifié par wyldhunt1, 24 mars 2012 - 08:53 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_TheOneBlackRider]

               Hey wyldhunt1!
Sorry for my late reply, but I've been away for vacations.
And thanks for that. Now THAT looks a bit more complecated... '> Well, if I get to that stage, I'll give it a shot!
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_TheOneBlackRider]

               I'm not sure, if I'm going to go for it, but nonetheless, maybe sombody can give me answers to these 2:

1. Does the size of a tileset pallette influence the opening time within the toolset? (In other words, is it worth to take out all none used entries from a pallette? Sure, it makes sense regarding the speed of finding features/groups, if you have some none working entries in between, but thinking to sort out Worm's Seasonal with Sen's addon down to an eg. autum only set would take ages...).


2. There is an issue with the thickets/platforms (orgiginal Worm's Seasonal with Sen's addon): If you place more of them, suddently they start to appear with a different season (eg. you place them on a summerfloor, some of them will turn into winter):


Same with the platforms:


Luckily it's not a big deal, because it can be easily fixed with the eraser-tool, but still: Is there an easy way fix to this?
               
               

               

                     Modifié par TheOneBlackRider, 11 avril 2012 - 03:11 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy__six]

               

TheOneBlackRider wrote...

1. Does the size of a tileset pallette influence the opening time within the toolset? (In other words, is it worth to take out all none used entries from a pallette? Sure, it makes sense regarding the speed of finding features/groups, if you have some none working entries in between, but thinking to sort out Worm's Seasonal with Sen's addon down to an eg. autum only set would take ages...).

Probably just the tileset file itself. Logically the toolset only needs to search for a group once you select that group. Even if it stores an index of some form, that is liable to be tiny relative to the tilset itself.

2. There is an issue with the thickets/platforms (orgiginal Worm's Seasonal with Sen's addon): If you place more of them, suddently they start to appear with a different season (eg. you place them on a summerfloor, some of them will turn into winter):

That's because there's only one Platform and Thicket terrain shared between all of the seasons (as opposed to Platform Summer, Platform Winter etc). It's not something you can really flip a switch to fix because its essentially a design feature, albeit an annoying one. It would be possible to add the additional terrains and split the tiles by terrain however, and that wouldn't break any existing areas unless they combined the season versions next to each other for some reason. Even then it'd run ingame still - the toolset just gets funny placing tiles when it detects combinations it doesn't think are possible.

Incidentally, you may find Shift+Right Click a better approach than using the Eraser tool to change tiles. For one, it displays all tiles in order instead of dealing with the fickle random selection. It also works on crossers like walls too.

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                     Modifié par _six, 11 avril 2012 - 03:35 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_TheOneBlackRider]

               OK, thanks! This will safe me some time! '>
I will finish slicing them (nearly finished - only "Winter Only" left) and won't sort out the pallette (it's named in a pretty clear way anyways).
And I won't touch those thickets. Thank you for Shift+Right Click-Tipp?
Will post here, when it's available.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_TheOneBlackRider]

               OK! Finally got it finished!
http://nwvault.ign.c....Detail&id=8144

Thanks to all for sharing your experience and time!
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_TheOneBlackRider]

               Since Rolo took an intrest:
Finally I managed to put together an updated version of the "seperated seasons"!
ATM, you can get this updated version (0.91) only here:
http://neverwinterva...m-sen-seperated

(I have not updated the old-vault version - that is still version 0.90)
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Rolo Kipp]

               <checking out...>

And I *am* interested in this :-)

<...the link>