Author Topic: Educate me…  (Read 440 times)

Legacy_Eagles Talon

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Educate me…
« on: April 12, 2011, 06:46:23 am »


                Greetings all,
 
I’m going to sound like a total newbie here, but I’m not really.  I’ve been a builder in a PW for several years.  But my work with custom content has been non-existent  other than using the end products from a few HAK’s etc. that have been there since the beginning for me so I don’t even consider them custom content anymore.   
 
I do have some questions that are real basic.  I just hope the answers are a short as the questions, however unlikely that is.
 
1.       After searching through the Vault, I find that I’m confused over some terminology.  In particular I’ve seen the following: Skin, reskin, texture, retexture, model and perhaps a couple of others.  My belief is that these are generally different words for the same thing.  Are there differences?  Does it matter which one is used?
2.       Overrides?  I understand the basic concept I think.  If I load in an override, client side, what I see when playing the game is the override.  It is not necessarily what other people see.  My questions are – a) Do I see the override in the toolset?  'B)' Can the override be added as a required HAK for a PW so that everyone sees the same thing by necessity? (and if so can these be added into a custom HAK and how?)
 
Any help to save my sanity would be helpful.
 
Thanks in advance
 
ET
 
               
               

               
            

Legacy_Jedijax

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Educate me…
« Reply #1 on: April 12, 2011, 07:38:50 am »


               1.Skin and texture are definitely the same thing, a 2D, graphic file (TGA, DDS, BMP, PLT) used over a 3D model in order to "colorize" it, give it an illusion of depth and detail. A re-skin or re-texture is, however, a slightly different thing. The game uses the aforementioned files by default, but sometimes users/modders are not satisfied with the original texture/skin, so they add their own via Hak Paks or the override folder, which leads to your second question...

2. When you override anything strictly client-side, the only one able to perceive the override is you.
a) As long as you are not using conflicting files/resources through Haks and files placed in the override folder, your changes should show in the Aurora Toolset. (There are, however, some exceptions to this, like when a texture simply refuses to be overriden, and you have to erase it directly from the Texture Pack that holds it. In my experience, such cases are rare, but still, they exist).
'B)' Yes, your override files can be added to PW specific haks which, as long as all players are required to install them, would show the changes for all users playing the PW. You add files to a HAK by using the Hak Pak Editor provided by Bioware with your game. It is in your "utils" folder, inside the main Neverwinter Nights program location, and it is shown as "nwhak"

Hope this helps.
               
               

               


                     Modifié par Jedijax, 12 avril 2011 - 06:41 .
                     
                  


            

Legacy_Bannor Bloodfist

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Educate me…
« Reply #2 on: April 12, 2011, 09:37:11 am »


               

Eagles Talon wrote...

Greetings all,

I’m going to sound like a total newbie here, but I’m not really.  I’ve been a builder in a PW for several years.  But my work with custom content has been non-existent  other than using the end products from a few HAK’s etc. that have been there since the beginning for me so I don’t even consider them custom content anymore.  

I do have some questions that are real basic.  I just hope the answers are a short as the questions, however unlikely that is.

First, newbies truly don't exist, just folks with questions.  {smilie}

1.       After searching through the Vault, I find that I’m confused over some terminology.  In particular I’ve seen the following: Skin, reskin, texture, retexture,

Those 4 are 99% of the time referring to the same thing.  Changing the look of an object/tile/creature by simply changing the texture assigned to it.

   model and perhaps a couple of others


This depends on the context the words are used in.  Again, most of the time it is likely to be the same as reskinning something.  However, if the modle (file extension being ./mdl ) is changed or newly created then you are actually talking about custom content.

     My belief is that these are generally different words for the same thing.  Are there differences?  Does it matter which one is used?

 Again, here it depends on the actual context.  Best bet is to be as specific as possible when discussing things, as that generally helps to eliminate confusion.

   2.       Overrides?  I understand the basic concept I think.  If I load in an override, client side, what I see when playing the game is the override.  It is not necessarily what other people see.  My questions are – a) Do I see the override in the toolset?  'B)' Can the override be added as a required HAK for a PW so that everyone sees the same thing by necessity? (and if so can these be added into a custom HAK and how?)



a) yes, you see overide content in toolset.
'B)' depends on what that content is and would depend on whether the server admin feels like forcing his/her players to download that content.  You will find some server admins that force you to download their own custom haks, that are nothing more than renamed/repackaged copies of things you likely already have in your hak folder while others tell folks where to get that specific content on their own.

Overrides on local side can affect just about anything, much more than folks think.  However, overrides from a server side and the client side are handled differently.  A server override folder typically contains scripts that affect general game play.  They always override content from the client side, regardless of how the client loads them.  Typically though, most PW servers, don't use override folder for anything but script protection.  By having the script in their override, the clients can not cheat by placing a new version on the client side, as the server will always override the client.

Depending on the other content in the override, some things won't work from hak file, some will.  Most will, but only on modules that have that specific hak inserted in the custom content of said module.

Client side, folks like to use override folder to add things to every module they play so that the do NOT have to edit the individual module to get that content working.  However, if that same content by filename, is already in the module via a .hak, then having it also in override is a complete waste of disk space, as the hak has priority over the override folder.

basic order of load is:
oc resources (read .bif content)
module resources (modified basic content, things like a sheild you placed in a creatures inventory to be dropped)
erf content, (module resources loaded via .erf import)
override folder contents
hak file contents.
server override folder

That is the basic order of what has priority when you play.
I think that is pretty darned close, but there are some instances where things might be handled a bit differently and I am sure other folks will comment about that.

Any help to save my sanity would be helpful.
Thanks in advance
ET


Hope that helps you somewhat.
               
               

               
            

Legacy_Frith5

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« Reply #3 on: April 12, 2011, 03:08:17 pm »


               People are liberal in their use of words, and context will always play a part in understanding what's being discussed. Most of the time all those mentioned words do refer to the same part of a model, ie the texture(s). However, the word 'skin' can sometimes be referring to a slightly different type of model, one that uses a skinmesh and bones. I'm not trying to confuse the issue. If they're talking about changing the way a model looks, like the colors, etc. without actually changing the way a model 'works', then by skin they really mean texture.

Maybe someone should do a glossary...

-JFK
               
               

               
            

Legacy__six

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« Reply #4 on: April 12, 2011, 09:53:50 pm »


               Someone called Wild Woods "a skin" before. I got pretty offended for about three seconds '<img'>
               
               

               
            

Legacy_Jedijax

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« Reply #5 on: April 13, 2011, 06:56:50 am »


               Wildwoods a skin? C'mon, you made that up!... No, really... seriously?... Hmm, maybe I should get into this trend and start calling Arbor Falls "a tune."
               
               

               
            

Legacy_Eagles Talon

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« Reply #6 on: April 13, 2011, 08:51:47 am »


               Thank you all.

It's "beginning" to click.

It's sooo hard to teach an old dog new tricks, and I'm older than many I'd bet.

I'm really trying to move on from just a toolset builder that puts things together.  I've no scripting ability (can read them some), no Custom Content knowledge etc.  It's tough to try to run a PW on such limitations.  But it's getting better, I mean the only real way I have to go is up.  '<img'>
               
               

               
            

Legacy_Bannor Bloodfist

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« Reply #7 on: April 13, 2011, 09:40:41 am »


               Heh!  NWN has this amazing power to make people grow and want to learn more.  Things they NEVER would have thought they might be interested in doing.

Welcome to the group of folks slowly pulling their hair out while attempting to make the NWN Experience even better. '=]'
               
               

               


                     Modifié par Bannor Bloodfist, 13 avril 2011 - 08:41 .