tileset wokmesh "OpenEdge" on wok check?

[Legacy_Darkophagus]

               Hi, Perhaps someone here might be able to help me figure something out.  I have been trying to learn about tilesets and making good progress. Using 3dsmax9 nwmax 0.8 and veltools.
 I keep getting wok check errors that say things like this:


" - OpenEdge Troublevert - 0.0 , 249.0"
" - OpenEdge Troublevert - 0.0 , 248.0"
" - OpenEdge Troublevert - 0.0 , 0.0"
" - OpenEdge Troublevert - 475.0 , 330.0"
" - OpenEdge Troublevert - 475.0 , 417.0"
" - OpenEdge Troublevert - 475.0 , 363.0"
" - OpenEdge Troublevert - 475.0 , 341.0"
" - OpenEdge Troublevert - 475.0 , 461.0"
" - OpenEdge Troublevert - 51.0 , 196.0"
" - OpenEdge Troublevert - 0.0 , 249.0"
" - OpenEdge Troublevert - 51.0 , 364.0"
" - OpenEdge Troublevert - 51.0 , 391.0"
"1 meshes have walkmesh errors - please check !"

Im told by  someone that errors like this can cause crashes so obviously I would like to fix them but have no idea how to since what looks to me to be vert coords  have no verts at them.....
Does  anyone know what causes this error?
  how to fix it? 
 How critical is it to  fix these?
If there is any other insight that could  be of help on this  it's appreciated.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Darkophagus, 10 avril 2011 - 07:50 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Bannor Bloodfist]

               Open the mdl, hide everything but the wok / walkmesh object.
Go to vertice select mode, do a ctrl-a to select them all...
now, scrolling down the selection rollout, there is a weldverts option, it has a number for the strength, set that to something like 5 then click the weld button.

Unhide everything, and try to export again.

If you still end up with open edges, you will have to manually check every vertice location that you can find, one by one, and do a box select on what you think is just a single vert, check the number of verts reported up near the top of the rollout.  If you see more than one vert is listed, double check that you have not accidentally selected the 2nd or more verts (all depends on how large your selection box was and the distance between your normal verts) regardless, if you end up with more than one vert at what SHOULD be a single vert location, do the weld option again, but increase the number to something higher..

If you are using 3dsmax, with Veltools, there are a couple other options you might find useful.  Check the "Toolbox 3" rollout for "find faceless geom" which will highlight the verts of bad objects.  Or, "remove Isolated Verts" to get rid of any that may not be showing up to you.  

And no, you can;t just export with those types of errors, as it could crash the engine, maybe not in toolset, but likely would in game.   So, you have to fix them.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Darkophagus]

               Thank you so very much Bannor.  I went through and tried the weld option got the same thing,  looked for faceless geom and there was none,  nor was there any isolated verts..... so  i started  looking and found there were faces with edges that  came up against other edges that were longer or shorter depending on  ones perspective.....  after deleting the  longer edge's  face and redrawing it so  all verts interconnected the errors went away....
  This lead me to a very unsettling realization......... this  issue  is in the untouched standard tni01 set and I have been seeing this error all over in standard sets......... So does this mean what I think it means?  How worried should  we be if the standard sets  have this  bad edge error  rampant in them?  Does it only matter if the  error is where it can actually be walked across?  LoL  it raises alot of questions in my  head.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Builder_Anthony]

               Maybe you have some verts that are there that you forgot to erase while maken things?I would often find a few buggers when searching to final things.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Darkophagus]

               

Builder_Anthony wrote...

Maybe you have some verts that are there that you forgot to erase while maken things?I would often find a few buggers when searching to final things.

Nay.... I'm getting these on 1.69 patch tiles without touching them..... try load up tni01_q05_01  part of the evil temple group and run a wok check lol....  I thought it was maybe something I had done but  the new center tiles I made from scratch dont have the error its all the stock ones I retained and retextured.... The issue is  where the  no walk edge allong the walls meet the  walls..... I'm in the process of redrawing faces now to fix what was  given us in the patch it seems....
As best I can tell it wasnt anything I did more that it looks to be how bioware  gave them to us.... If anyone wants to verify that though  feel free '>  I've been  mistaken on things  before lol.
 The  group set are tiles  Q, R, and S05_01 - 08_01 if anyone is interested. 
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Bannor Bloodfist]

               Actually, what you are running into here is the export/import errors generated by NWMax etc.

What I typically get is a series of errors like this one (found in that tni01_q05_01):

Bad Edge: 3 Vert pair: [499.996,199.001,-0.0500031],[499.996,250.001,-0.0500031]

If you look at that, and the dozen others that show up on initial export on that tile, you will notice that the entire wok was offset by .003,700.999 from the normal 500,200,0 that it should be.

the last error line:
Bad pivot location. Pivot must be 0,0,z.  Not -0.00390625,0.000976562,z  shows you exactly why that first (and rest) of the errors occurred.

Clean Models by OldMansBeard will fix those for you easily,   OR, you can manually adjust the wok back into position.  The issue though is the rounding errors on export/import, Primarily the actual import.  It also affects EVERY SINGLE object in a given mdl file.  So manually fixing things would take a human forever.  Clean Models by OMB is a life saver for this stuff.

Typically, I run CM3 on everything prior to import, and then again, on the resulting final exported tile.  The error counts CM3 shows are very large, but most are the rounding issues.

Technically, that small of a rounding error, IE on the first time you import/export, won't hurt much, meaning the game can handle it. Which is why some of the "older" cc folks just turn off sanity checking.  However, if you do multiple import/exports on that same mdl, the rounding error grows large enough to truly cause issues.  And, if you have sanity checking turned off, you won't find any truly broken bits in the wok.

Anyway, run CM3 on any tile before you import, do whatever you need to edit that tile, then run CM3 on what you think is your final export.  Believe me, it will save you hundreds of hours of work that you would other wise have to fix.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Zwerkules]

               Darkophagus, I can confirm that those errors were already in the Bioware tiles. They were not your fault. Even the TNO tileset has a number of errors that are not so obvious. There are quite a few meshes that are there twice. Usually you get flickers if meshes overlap, but it seems if they are exactly the same you don't get those flickers.
Sometimes a 'rotate texture' is missing and once I saw a tile that had 'rotate texture' activated for a part of a wall and the texture showed up turned all the wrong way in the game. But for a tileset with so many tiles there aren't many errors in it.

Not all open edges crash the game and the Bioware tilesets are full of walkmesh errors that will not cause problems in game but will cause the export script to show walkmesh error messages. There are sometimes even huge gaps in the walkmeshes, but as long as they are vertical they seem to cause no problems in game. Also lots of walkmeshes are turned by 90 degrees. This will cause the vertices along the tile edges to be at 499.999 and 500.001 instead of 500 and an error will be shown, but it will be rounded to 500 anyway, so there actually is no problem with that.
I like to fix those things even if they don't cause problems in game, because I want my models to export without any error messages.

If you have problems finding some of the trouble verts and you have VelsTools, look for "WOK-Check" under NWN Tools II. This usually gives more information than the standard wok-check AND it has all the trouble verts selected and thus shown in red after you do a wok-check and select 'editable mesh - vertex' from the modify tab.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Zwerkules, 11 avril 2011 - 08:37 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_Darkophagus]

               Thanks  much  guys,  Yeah I was turned onto  CM3 a while back along  with VelTools by my bro Kama.  With the  advice given here I have been able to fix the meshes to be error free in the add on tiles I'm making and it feels good to be learning  how to do these things right and proper '>  The  note  about the  VelTools wok checker  hilighting the   problem verts will be very  useful and I can't wait to try that out now.