Author Topic: Need Tileset Guru for help in finishing custom Airships  (Read 345 times)

Legacy_cyberglum

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Need Tileset Guru for help in finishing custom Airships
« on: April 05, 2011, 03:58:37 pm »


               Hi all,

I didn't really want to start a new thread on this, but at the same time desperate for some help in finishing a project and need to flag it up.

I've pretty much finished 3 custom fantasy airship models. I have them as both static and animated placeables.

To complete what I set out to do I need at least 1 walkable tile group done for each of the models. In flight is fine (over Chasm in the Desert tileset will do).

I've down loaded various tools for creating tilesets, and looked at Some_ux's original hakpak and model but it all seems pretty complex. This might sound a little lazy of me but I'm posting this in the hopes some tileset wiz could knock-up what I'm after in a matter of, I dunno...1/2 an hour, as opposed to me fumbling my way through learing the  process over the next month or so. 

If anyone is willing to help it would be really, really appreciated. When released full credit would be given and you'd have my unending respect as a stand-up human being.

You can pm me here or send me a mail. I've all the files ready to transfer.

*Crosses fingers*

'Glum
               
               

               
            

Legacy_OldTimeRadio

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Need Tileset Guru for help in finishing custom Airships
« Reply #1 on: April 05, 2011, 07:58:48 pm »


               Cyberglum,

Unfortunately I can't help (anytime soon) but there's a method I've been kicking around in my head for a long time now and it might be something you and whomever can do the tile work might want to think about.  This method involves a universal landing node- exactly like the node I made for my Land N Takeoff placeable demo.  This is a node which you'd attach your meshes to and it would allow you to cause the airships to swoop down from the sky (after creating the placeable and "activating" it via NWScript) to a "landed" position where they remain immobile until you "deactivated" it via a script, and in which the deactivation animation (on2off) causes it to fly away.

Ok, so all that is just like my Land n Takeoff demo works.

The new bit is instead of creating X individual tilegroups, each depicting the different airship variants docked, one could create a single tile group which would represent a "docking station" and whose boarding ramp walkmesh extends to a walkable area (a "universal deck") which is as big as the smallest deck of the ships which would dock there.  Since walkmesh is invisible to the player, when an airship is not present at the end of the boarding ramp, the ramp could be blocked off with an visible/invisible placeable (think "closed boarding gate") to prevent the player from walking into and standing on thin air.

So, what a player would see is a ramp extending into the air, say with a closed gate at the end of the ramp.  They would not be able to walk passed the gate because the gate's PWK blocks further movement onto the "universal deck" but the "universal deck" would still remain a walkable rectangle of ground, probably at least a few meters in the air, just beyond the end of the boarding ramp.

Then the airship placeable is created, is activated, causing it to swoop down to the end of the landing gate and stop there.  The airship placeable would be aligned with the landing node in such a way that when it comes to a stop, it's "deck" is more or less perfectly aligned with the invisilbe "universal deck" which exists passed the end of the boarding ramp and which is part of the walkmesh of the tile group.  Then, via script, the placeable gate is destroyed (or whatever) and since it's PWK is nolonger blocking the walkmesh, the player can now proceed onto the "universal dock" walkmesh- and be given the impression that they have just done the impossible: to walk onto the surface of a placeable ship which wasn't there a moment ago!

I have always disliked the extremely time intensive method of having to create custom tile groups for an airship to make "sense" in an area.  My Land n Takeoff animation test was an attempt to put a nail in the coffin of that method.  The second and final blow is the method I describe above.

I'm not saying you shouldn't use the method you were thinking of.  I'm just tossing the idea out there because it would cut down on the time and skill required to add a large number of airships into existing tilesets- one tile group which could be used with an infinite number of Land n Takeoff style placeable airships and another (the "old method") in which a new tile group is required to display each static airship- and the airship can't appear to fly away or arrive using the old method, of course.  It'll be probably a month at the soonest before I can play around with implementing that second part of the idea and so you or anyone else is free to explore it if you so choose.

One step further, let's say one made a "sky" tileset which was had some nice clouds in it, which moved from the North of the tileset to the South, giving one the impression of flying through them.  The same invisible walkmesh idea could be used with various placeable airships to give the impression to the player that they're walking on the deck of an airship flying through the clouds.  PWK's could be used to block off parts of the walk mesh (to make it smaller for placeable airships with smaller decks) and the same trickery and effect would apply.

The only two givens that I have been able to think of are that doors on the placeable airship would not work and one would have to use triggers for going "below decks" and that it greatly helps the effect if the deck dimensions of the vessels are standardized with the invisible walkmesh so when the player walks around it's easy for them to get the impression that they're walking on that placeable, not on an invisible walkmesh which happens to be generally sized and oriented to that placeable's deck.

It's a bit of work to get the first example going but once that's done you'll just be adding placeables to a module, not new tile groups to a tileset.  Adding new placeables is, by far, the easier and more enjoyable of the two tasks.
               
               

               


                     Modifié par OldTimeRadio, 05 avril 2011 - 07:12 .
                     
                  


            

Legacy_Zwerkules

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Need Tileset Guru for help in finishing custom Airships
« Reply #2 on: April 05, 2011, 09:17:29 pm »


               That's a very good idea, OldTimeRadio. For airships as well as for ships.
               
               

               
            

Legacy_Bannor Bloodfist

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Need Tileset Guru for help in finishing custom Airships
« Reply #3 on: April 05, 2011, 09:27:19 pm »


               OldTimeRadio's thinking is almost useable, but you would still need to create tile(s) to hold them.  Depending on the "size" of the airship involved, you might need multiple tiles.

A walkable deck, if it extends beyond the 10x10 meter max walkable size of an individual tile would require more tiles.  In this case, you are talking a max walkable distance of roughly half of that, or possible a 5x10 section that would be "blocked" by his gate.

Why you ask?  Well, you would have to have enough space on the tile(s) for the airship to fit.  Since you are talking about using a chasm type tile, to make the loading/fitting easier, you are talking about a tile that is half wide with walkable section of grass or sand or whatever surface you choose, with the pit section covering the other half.  (Thus reducing your possible walking positions for the airship's deck.)  

You may need to adjust the pathnode entry to reflect the change, but that depends on how large the new walkable section is, and likely, is not worth worrying about unless you are creating a group that is larger than a single tile.

Since most ships in game are larger than the 10x10 size limit on a tile, you would have to create enough tiles in your group, to allow the walkable section to work.

Anyway, a walkmesh is the same type of object as a PWK, just by a different name.  It is MUCH easier to handle though, since it doesn't require extra linking etc that a pwk does.

You would pick the tile you would want to use, rename it using any of the renaming tools out there, and there are a bunch of them available, then add that NEW tile to the .SET File.  Once that bit is done, edit that new tile and adjust the walkmesh object to reflect what you are attempting to do.  

You can edit that tile's original walkmesh object manually, and extrude faces up to the level that you need for a quick and dirty way to get it done.  You just select the faces you want, and extrude them to the level you need them to be.  You may want to remove some faces that get created, and directly attach to other existing faces on the tile etc, to conserve on poly's, but this should not be that difficult for you to accomplish considering what you have already learned how to do by working on the airships in general.

As to actual tutorials on this particular subject, you will not likely find a complete type of tutorial anywhere.  Everything that I have ever found only has pieces of the different bits you need to work with.

Jlen's Set Editor can do the copy.rename part of the task for you, and even add the NEW tile to a NEW .set file for you.  However, be warned, that editor does NOT support 1.69 pathnodes, grass settings, etc.  In other words, if you attempt to use that editor with say the Castle Rural set, you would trash the set.   However, it CAN at least duplicate and rename the tile(s) in question for you making the manual editing of the .SET file easier.  

Adding groups is a bit trickier, but can be accomplished manually fairly easily.  You first get the tiles added to the .SET file.  Next, browse down to almost the end (search for GROUPS) adjust the total number of groups upwards by 1, then go to end of the file and add a new group entry.  

Finally, you have to edit the xxxxpalstd.itp to reflect the new group you wish to add so that it shows up in the palette in toolset.


EDIT:  REMEMEMBER a PWK can NOT ADD walkable space to anything, it can only BLOCK existing walkable space on a walkmesh.  You can set it to be walkable all you want, but it will NOT allow you to walk above a section of tile walkmesh that is set to non-walkable space regardless of the settings in your PWK file.
               
               

               


                     Modifié par Bannor Bloodfist, 05 avril 2011 - 08:29 .
                     
                  


            

Legacy_Frith5

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Need Tileset Guru for help in finishing custom Airships
« Reply #4 on: April 06, 2011, 01:34:39 am »


               I thought about this on a much smaller scale a while ago, for use in bedroom tiles to make beds a PC/NPC can sleep on:
The wok is raised in several possible locations in a bedroom tile or not, so you cycle through until you want the design that works for your placeables, and then you place the bed over the raised walkmesh, setting the z-axis of the placeable to put the top even with the wok mesh. Now anyone can walk onto the bed, lay down, sleep. I also thought scriptable bedcovers for the beds would be cool, so you could pull a cover over yourself and have a draped placeable appear over you as you lay there.
Never did anything with it though, but I can really see the ships landing, moving, etc. that OTR talks about as being so awesome, I thought I'd throw out my old idea about furniture.
-JFK
               
               

               
            

Legacy_Borden Haelven

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Need Tileset Guru for help in finishing custom Airships
« Reply #5 on: April 06, 2011, 10:04:34 pm »


               You fancy a tall tethering tower with steps going round the outside?
               
               

               
            

Legacy_cyberglum

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Need Tileset Guru for help in finishing custom Airships
« Reply #6 on: April 08, 2011, 01:29:14 pm »


               Its interesting to note how similar builders think. OTR - I was imagining a similar system to the one you've suggested for the docking system. I was poking around the Wizards Tower tile for the City Set, the one with the walkable mesh at the top of it. Could well be adapted (I'm such a hack) to what you're describing.

www.youtube.com/watch

Bannor - Thanks a bunch. Your pointers really helped. After several late nights, a few days facial hair growth and a serious lack of hygiene appreciation I've produced a tile group for the Sky raider model.

social.bioware.com/uploads_user/757000/756604/109801.jpg

I've managed to squeeze the model into a 6x2 group which made the tileslicing easier.

I was uncertain about what to use as the base for the walk mesh so used sum_ux's original one for the gnome airship. After about a dozen attempts, all with various degrees of success, I finally have one which kind of works. There are still parts of the model which will not allow me to walk on it even though in the walkmesh looks fine in gmax. I'm suspecting its to do with the path nodes for each time, but uncertain. For instance, the right hand stair up to the rear deck works fine, but it won't let me use the right had stairs, even though they look exactly the same in the toolset.

So, stuff left to iron out on me totally grasping the process:

Why it won't let me move on certain parts of the walkmesh (path nodes?)

Why the tile base shows as a white base in the game and seems unattached to the chasm around (see screenshot link above). I'd appreciate any advise on this point.

As ever I made it hard on myself by choosing to learn this process with the largest of the 3 models I'm working with but once I get the sky raider sorted the other 2 should be a breeze.

'Glum
               
               

               


                     Modifié par cyberglum, 08 avril 2011 - 12:34 .
                     
                  


            

Legacy_Bannor Bloodfist

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Need Tileset Guru for help in finishing custom Airships
« Reply #7 on: April 08, 2011, 10:06:19 pm »


               Hmmm.... the "base" not showing a texture could be caused by several issues.  
1) The object that is the base is set to fade.
2) the texture is not recognized by the engine (this sometimes happens with TGA's created by PaintShopPro for instance, and just loading it into another graphics editor and re-saving as TGA may correct it)
3) likely other possible issues that I am just not remembering right now.

As to the walkmesh issues.  Give us a screen shot of the walkmesh as it looks in gmax (hide all other objects and take a shot showing where the wok is not working)  Or optionally send me a copy of the tiles in question and I can take a look to see..
Possible causes could be that the stairs are too steep, the engine can have issues with that at times.  Or you may have a face that is set to non-walkable in a location that is blocking you.  I seriously doubt it is a pathnode issue, but that IS a possibility, just a rare one.  Path nodes are primarily used for long distance routing.  IE, you click more than half a tile away from where the pc is standing and the engine attempts to find a walkable way to the location you clicked.  Usually, a PC can still navigate even if there is a bad pathnode, by manually walking to that spot, but an NPC/creature etc, would get blocked or "hang" when a pathnode is bad.

Anyway, feel free to send me a copy of the group, and I would be willing to help you adjust the walkmesh if you can't figure it out on your own.