Author Topic: Fallen Pale Master  (Read 583 times)

Legacy_WoodMor

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« on: May 20, 2015, 03:48:39 pm »


               

What, exactly, happens to a fallen PM?


 


For example; I'm Wizard L5 and PM L2. My understanding is that if I drift to close to Good, then I lose the PM abilities. But what happens to the XP I spent on the PM levels? Can it be applied to my Wizard Levels? If I drift away from Good will I get the PM levels back? Inquiring mind want to know!


 


Thanx!



               
               

               
            

Legacy_Empyre65

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« Reply #1 on: May 20, 2015, 06:36:10 pm »


               

I never tried that, but I think that you would keep your PM abilities, but you would be unable to take more levels of PM until you are no longer Good. Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong.



               
               

               
            

Legacy_MrZork

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« Reply #2 on: May 21, 2015, 01:59:40 pm »


               


I never tried that, but I think that you would keep your PM abilities, but you would be unable to take more levels of PM until you are no longer Good. Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong.




By default, that's pretty much it. Through scripting, various rules can be implemented, though it's usually not simple to remove feat-derived class abilities without de-leveling. However, module builders looking to actually enforce the likely intent of the alignment restrictions could simply remove XP until the toon no longer has levels in a class that is disallowed by the new alignment (or until the toon is at level 1) and then give that XP back, forcing a re-level with different classes (or some alignment change). Such systems are seldom foolproof, but combined with, say, a system that restricts alignment changes to 5 points on each axis per game day (or whatever) and it would be a bit tougher tougher to circumvent the alignment restrictions.


 


BTW, I am not a huge fan of alignment as an RP concept. It's just too easy to come up with RP rationales that justify all sorts of alignment-bending behavior. However, I do understand that the real purpose of the class alignment restrictions is as a game balance tool. E.g. someone who wants an arcane-casting paladin with uber saves from Divine Grace? Then the trade-off is that that casting class can't also provide tumble, UMD, spellcraft and Bard Song. Ditto for Dwarven Defenders, etc.Viewed as a balance tool, alignments have a little more value. (And, before any straw men show up, I am not saying that the alignment restrictions provide perfect balance or that no overpowered combinations are possible.)


               
               

               
            

Legacy_Jfoxtail

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« Reply #3 on: May 21, 2015, 06:11:50 pm »


               

<the op question is answered, simply the engine disallows more PM levels until such time as alignment swings back to meet eligibility>


 


Alignment in a electronic medium for RP purposes is hard (er) to "accomplish successfully".


 


The medium itself often only permits (1) dialogue or (2) quest / activity results in more or less 6 categories. Good Neutral Bad - Lawful Neutral Chaotic.


 


But alignment RP is not really about "game balance".


 


There are sufficient power build options in both electronic and table top medium to sufficiently allow for game balance. Balance is only about PvP ` 1 player verses 1 player if allowed. That is not really a D&D concept except in the rare "duel" role play. Balance is achieved verses the environment and against other groups be they swarms of Orcs, NPCs, Undead, etc.


 


Alignment was always about role playing the "type of person"; and the restrictions were always about choices and consequences. Hence it is harder in the electronic medium. Few campaigns in electronic form can script out "multiple paths" of choices and consequences and hence it is limited. 


 


Justification about alignment bending was always subject to negotiation between the player and GM ; and that flexibility is needed. Does a Paladin slay a "Bhaal-spawn" child that evidences evil ? In table top the very situation can be Role Played over time with consequences either way... in electronic medium...possible but harder.



               
               

               
            

Legacy_MrZork

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« Reply #4 on: May 21, 2015, 08:12:40 pm »


               

Alignment restrictions serve a balance function in NWN, not in terms of RP but in terms of actual game mechanics. It's a crude check, but it creates useful trade-offs. Obviously, I was not talking about PnP and I agree that PnP is very different, as a sentient DM can consider and deal with such issues in ways that are more subtle and more comprehensive.



               
               

               
            

Legacy_WoodMor

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« Reply #5 on: May 22, 2015, 10:00:13 am »


               

Thank you , folks. Wanted to know how it worked. I was anticipating that the Never Tomb Quest would bump me too close to Good. But I didn't want to deal with the Talona crowd (Gilles).


 


I'm not above shaking down some of these peeps for more money (especially nobles), so that behavior would have probably balanced things out anyway. 



               
               

               
            

Legacy_Jfoxtail

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« Reply #6 on: May 22, 2015, 02:57:58 pm »


               


Alignment restrictions serve a balance function in NWN, not in terms of RP but in terms of actual game mechanics. It's a crude check, but it creates useful trade-offs. Obviously, I was not talking about PnP and I agree that PnP is very different, as a sentient DM can consider and deal with such issues in ways that are more subtle and more comprehensive.




 


Yes agreed sorry ~ I understand your meaning.