Author Topic: Any new combat/class system projects?  (Read 1502 times)

Legacy_MagicalMaster

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Any new combat/class system projects?
« Reply #30 on: October 11, 2012, 03:49:20 am »


               

Aelis Eine wrote...

Very likely not stuns, unless they're very short stuns that would effectively make them just interrupts. Slows, very likely. DoTs, quite likely too. Attack or Damage debuffs, or maybe something that procs a buff on the player.


So, in reality, it wouldn't be 70% AoE to 100% single target, it would be 70% AoE to 150% single target or something.

Aelis Eine wrote...

On trash? A mob would probably die in a matter of seconds. A zerg of mobs might take a minute or slightly more, not so much because of DPS but because of the need to divide and conquer by kiting and line of sight. I'm aiming for an average dungeon to take 20 minutes to clear for a party of 3, and slightly under an hour solo.


I think we might wildy diverge here.  Why is it possible to solo it if it is designed for 3 people?

Aelis Eine wrote...

Also, it isn't really a 30 second window that resets, because the heals are not full heals. It could very well be a character having 300HP and losing 200HP over say, 18 seconds, then healing back 120 to go up to 220, losing another 200, healing back to 140, winning with 80HP left and resting to reset cooldowns.


That's another way to do it, yes, since then if you "fall behind" and play perfectly you can "catch up" with heals.  That also does limit the damage you can put out, though.

Aelis Eine wrote...

Anyway, moving on, how many active abilities should a player have access to? i.e. buttons to press that make something happen - AoE, Single Target, Buffs, Debuffs, Heals etc. This is in the context of NWN specifically, i.e. 36 hotkey slots max, but a good majority of them are bound to less than ideal keys with no way to rebind - how does a player hit Ctrl+F12 while trying to kite in a circle, for example?


No more than 12 time sensitive skills, I'd say .  If you want to go beyond that with buffs that can be cast after resting or something, sure.

I'd say 4-6 abilities in the "core abilities" to be used often (probably don't include AoE in that) and can have some more utility stuff or AoE or similar stuff.

Aelis Eine wrote...

Also, what are the bare minimum skills that every character should have? I listed 1 single target, 1 AoE and a heal, but there's a few others I'm not sure about so I thought I'd ask a second opinion.


That really depends upon your goal.  You want people to be able to avoid damage a lot more than I do, for example.

In the thing I'm working on (and hope to show you fairly soon), I went with 6 single target damage abilities (some with cooldowns of up to 2 minutes) and 3 AoE abilities, didn't include any utility yet.  I'm also concerned that even that might be too much, still wondering about that.  There would also be a heal, so there's 10 abilities right there potentially.
               
               

               
            

Legacy_Aelis Eine

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Any new combat/class system projects?
« Reply #31 on: October 11, 2012, 06:01:22 am »


               

MagicalMaster wrote...

So, in reality, it wouldn't be 70% AoE to 100% single target, it would be 70% AoE to 150% single target or something.


In the case of DoTs, the only autoattack I had in mind that would proc one was the infinite use spell for fire-specced mages, otherwise everyone else is pretty much 70:100, and I'm still not completely decided on whether fire should proc a burn or just have more damage across the single target and AoE.

I think we might wildy diverge here.  Why is it possible to solo it if it is designed for 3 people?


It seems to be pretty common practice for soloists to attempt party content in MMOs for a challenge - I see Youtubes of those for Aion, I've personally done it myself on Champions Online, and I think even in WoW there's instances of players soloing 5 man content? I personally believe that if something is designed for 3 average players, 1 very good player is very likely going to be able to solo it, or at least parts of it while skipping a few hard fights here and there. Especially if they have quite a few pieces of the gear dropped there, and are soloing to complete the set, compared to 3 players without a single piece between them.

That's another way to do it, yes, since then if you "fall behind" and play perfectly you can "catch up" with heals.  That also does limit the damage you can put out, though.


The old mod I helped out with had full heal potions in NPC stores so I had to build around that by designing encounters that, in the right situation, could put out damage faster than the player could heal back by chugging potions. It would be a nice change of pace to work with lower damage outputs and still be able to create a challenge.

No more than 12 time sensitive skills, I'd say .  If you want to go beyond that with buffs that can be cast after resting or something, sure.

I'd say 4-6 abilities in the "core abilities" to be used often (probably don't include AoE in that) and can have some more utility stuff or AoE or similar stuff.

That really depends upon your goal.  You want people to be able to avoid damage a lot more than I do, for example.

In the thing I'm working on (and hope to show you fairly soon), I went with 6 single target damage abilities (some with cooldowns of up to 2 minutes) and 3 AoE abilities, didn't include any utility yet.  I'm also concerned that even that might be too much, still wondering about that.  There would also be a heal, so there's 10 abilities right there potentially.


Right now my list is shaping up to look like 1 energy builder, 1 aoe, 1 basic heal and 6 more selectable abilities. I think some kind of gap closer like a movement speed buff or teleport attack is necessary for melee classes

A sustained burst" buff, like 3 rounds of uber damage with 1 minute cooldown seems quite important for tactical depth on all classes too. As is an emergency button, like click to get 50% damage imm for 18 seconds or 100% conceal for 9 seconds on 1 minute cooldown. I'm putting those under selectable skills so that multiclasses can choose which one works best for them though.

I'm not sure if I should have a stun/CC breaker though, not sure whether they should be in the list of 6 with different versions for different classes, or a generic one given for free, or simply integrated into the emergency button.
               
               

               


                     Modifié par Aelis Eine, 11 octobre 2012 - 05:03 .
                     
                  


            

Legacy_MagicalMaster

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Any new combat/class system projects?
« Reply #32 on: October 18, 2012, 02:57:24 am »


               Good news: lots of stuff to do in Mists of Pandaria.

Bad news: lots of stuff to do in Mists of Pandaria.

Whew.

Aelis Eine wrote...

In the case of DoTs, the only autoattack I had in mind that would proc one was the infinite use spell for fire-specced mages, otherwise everyone else is pretty much 70:100, and I'm still not completely decided on whether fire should proc a burn or just have more damage across the single target and AoE.


Ah.  Well, just keep in mind my point of wanting to avoid a situation where the difference between single target and AoE that it's nearly as a effective to spam AoE on single targets.

Aelis Eine wrote...

It seems to be pretty common practice for soloists to attempt party content in MMOs for a challenge - I see Youtubes of those for Aion, I've personally done it myself on Champions Online, and I think even in WoW there's instances of players soloing 5 man content? I personally believe that if something is designed for 3 average players, 1 very good player is very likely going to be able to solo it, or at least parts of it while skipping a few hard fights here and there. Especially if they have quite a few pieces of the gear dropped there, and are soloing to complete the set, compared to 3 players without a single piece between them.


Only a handful of specializations in WoW have a hope of soloing 5 man content and only then if they really outgear it.  It really comes down to tanks that have enough self-healing and gear to keep up with the incoming damage.  And on anything that's relevant, they have no hope of soloing it.

And I somewhat disagree, depending upon how bad you think the average player is.  But I can easily show you content that's easily doable with three people but impossible to solo.  But I also don't think players should basically be able to avoid all damage.  And how powerful are you planning on making gear here, if it's going to nearly triple character power?

Aelis Eine wrote...

The old mod I helped out with had full heal potions in NPC stores so I had to build around that by designing encounters that, in the right situation, could put out damage faster than the player could heal back by chugging potions. It would be a nice change of pace to work with lower damage outputs and still be able to create a challenge.


I completely agree with the last statement, but I also think players should expect to take damage and slowly depelete their health pool, plus deplete it more quickly if they mess up (and potentially basically get instantly killed).

Aelis Eine wrote...

A sustained burst" buff, like 3 rounds of uber damage with 1 minute cooldown seems quite important for tactical depth on all classes too. As is an emergency button, like click to get 50% damage imm for 18 seconds or 100% conceal for 9 seconds on 1 minute cooldown. I'm putting those under selectable skills so that multiclasses can choose which one works best for them though.


A few of those buttons are good, just want to avoid too many of them, especially if they're stackable.

Aelis Eine wrote...

I'm not sure if I should have a stun/CC breaker though, not sure whether they should be in the list of 6 with different versions for different classes, or a generic one given for free, or simply integrated into the emergency button.


I don't really see a need unless you're planning on having heavy PvP.