Playing without equipment with perma-haste

[Legacy_SHOVA]

               I can see your point.
Personally, I cap all my games at level 20. I have played epic level games before, but have yet, to see one that isn't, imho, ridiculously cheesy in some way.

As for building the enemy creature, I tend to make said creature 2 levels higher than whatever class the creature is designed to be for. (I make Wizard specific creatures for wizard etc.) I tend to also make creatures with a extreme vulnerability, a minor vulnerability, and a minor and major immunity. I also make sure to add a immunity to a specific spell, here and there just to keep casters thinking.

I agree with you, Bio's version of haste is hard to deal with in a MP environment. Especially at higher, and gulp, epic levels. But, I believe that just like the classes are not equal, neither are the monsters. it really comes down to 3 choices for dealing with Haste as Bio made it. You can:
A- use it, and not worry about the effects.
B- remove it completely and not worry about the effects.
C- change it and not worry about the effects.
its all a mater of what style you want.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_HipMaestro]

               For my own tastes, I crave permahaste whenever and wherever I play.  Why?  I prefer to run.  Everywhere.  All he time. Fast like a wabbit. In RL or egaming... walking or slow running (will willingly drop inventory to assure zero encumberance) puts me to sleep. Egaming is not like a hiking trip in the mountains, examining the fauna & flora in your leisure (although some RP servers have tried to slow down the experience to more accurately depict RL).  There are goals to achieve and if you want to experience many different worlds and community content there are bajillions of goals to look forward to and time's a'wastin', me hardy.  Unless you started playing NWN straight out of the womb, that walking "drag" will age you prematurely and limit the scope of your enjoyment so significantly that even the most dedicated fan will not be able to taste everything they want.

So, IMO, there should be a special version of Haste designed just for me and my toons, all classes.  All it does is allow my PC to get from Point A to Point B fast.  Except for combat effectiveness issues, I care little about extra attacks, extra spells or extra AC.  Just allow my blamed toon to get to the inn for some libation before its navigator falls asleep at the keyboard.  WHERE'S THE TELEPORT SPELL? *lol*  Who has the dice?

In addition, though admittedly lots of folks get their rocks off dueling, as far as I am concerned, it isn't D&D, not as I remember it, and can be removed from all servers.  The balancing needed to assure "fair" dueling is a waste of effort IMHO.  Just my own bias.  Nothing more.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par HipMaestro, 28 mai 2012 - 02:40 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_SHOVA]

               Hip, knowing how most areas are built, I can certainly understand why you feel that way.

The teleport spell is in the PRC. Though I admit, it is rather limited.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_WebShaman]

               First of all, Perma-Haste, much like a few other overly powerful feats, abilities, etc (Dev Crit, HiPS, etc) are unbalanced.

I really think enough has been said about it in this thread, so I will just offer that I am personally against Perma-Haste, because it is an "all or nothing" sort of thing in the game - either all have access to it, or no-one should.  It is just that unbalancing.

I prefer to just keep Haste (even extended, yadda yadda yadda) and such in the game instead.

Perma Haste turns a Spellcaster into a Super Spellcaster, and they basically don't need the extra power anyway...

I have a bone to pick with SHOVA here - the teleport spell is rather limited??!!  I beg to differ!  It is majorly awesome!  Not only is it a "get out of danger fast!" sort of thing (put it in a quickslot, bam! Gone!), but combined with Scrying...and you can really get around!!!!!  Also, being able to port an entire party is sweeeeeet!!!  Especially when you have LOTS of Summons!  

I like to use it to port into a Magnificent Mansion...hehe....instant rest!!!  Or in an Inn, if that is blocked (which it should be, IMHO).  So Teleport can be used as the ultimate retreat and repower spell, and return you to the "scene" powered up and ready to rock!  How is this then "rather limited"?

Combine it with a Contingency spell, and you are basically safe from being PKed...

So, IMO, there should be a special version of Haste designed just for me and my toons, all classes.

Actually, there is!  It is called Expedious Retreat, and works just like you have described.  One can have this 1st level spell easily put on items, and repeatedly cast.  I have even seen ingenious uses of this in PWs, put on roads so that one can move faster on them...

There are also other ways to increase the speed of units, without giving the bonuses of Haste through scripting.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Elhanan]

               Personally, I believe the Haste spell is simply overpowerd for the current 3rd Spell Lvl; should be 7th-9th tier with all current adds.

Another spell like Lesser Haste should replace the slot, allowing for both speed and Dodge AC, but only allow the extra attacks on the Greater Haste form in the upper tier. IMO.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_SHOVA]

               Web, the limitation is getting it to work properly in MP.
while it may work as intended for some, I have yet to get it to work as such, after 3 days of playing with it, I finally got the options to show up, but getting them to work (in MP) has yet to happen. I assume its a problem on my end, and that I will eventually figure it out, however the documentation/tech solutions are limited, and at this point frustrating to say the least.

As to haste, I agree, either add it so everyone has it, or remove it so no one does, otherwise it will drive you nuts.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_MrZork]

               

Elhanan wrote...

Personally, I believe the Haste spell is simply overpowerd for the current 3rd Spell Lvl; should be 7th-9th tier with all current adds.

Yikes! IMO, that's a bit high for a spell with a one-round-per-caster-level duration. Maybe 4th level. For comparison, Divine Power is level 4, offering extra HP, higher AB, extra attacks, and a strength bonus.

IMO, the problem with haste is that combining the extra attack with the +4 dodge bonus pushes the spell over the top. Haste holds a big advantage both offensively and defensively and has no downside. If there were no AC bonus (or even if it were +1 or +2), the haste effect wouldn't be so unbalancing.

Another approach would be to include a significant negative aspect of being hasted. For example, change haste so that a hasted character has the duration of any other buffs cut in half, though that might be a scripting nightmare. A simpler approach might be to rationalize that haste "destabilizes" other magiks on a character, implemented by a dispel effect that occurs when the haste is cast or perma-hasted item is equipped. But, while that works okay for cast haste (with its short duration), without further scripting it's not very effective for haste items, since other buffs could be cast after the item is equipped. But adding some cost might help balance the effect.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Elhanan]

               

MrZork wrote...

Yikes! IMO, that's a bit high for a spell with a one-round-per-caster-level duration. Maybe 4th level. For comparison, Divine Power is level 4, offering extra HP, higher AB, extra attacks, and a strength bonus.

IMO, the problem with haste is that combining the extra attack with the +4 dodge bonus pushes the spell over the top. Haste holds a big advantage both offensively and defensively and has no downside. If there were no AC bonus (or even if it were +1 or +2), the haste effect wouldn't be so unbalancing.

Another approach would be to include a significant negative aspect of being hasted. For example, change haste so that a hasted character has the duration of any other buffs cut in half, though that might be a scripting nightmare. A simpler approach might be to rationalize that haste "destabilizes" other magiks on a character, implemented by a dispel effect that occurs when the haste is cast or perma-hasted item is equipped. But, while that works okay for cast haste (with its short duration), without further scripting it's not very effective for haste items, since other buffs could be cast after the item is equipped. But adding some cost might help balance the effect.

My reasoning is that Haste is better than Auto-Quicken, and the latter has Epic prereqs. And as others have noted, in Perm form it is unbalancing. By placing the present form at a higher tier spell helps make it a bit more strategic in selection.

Personally, I am good with the speed and Dodge bonuses in Perm form; tis the extra attack which makes it unbalanced. IMO/
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_HipMaestro]

               

WebShaman wrote...

So, IMO, there should be a special version of Haste designed just for me and my toons, all classes.

Actually, there is!  It is called Expedious Retreat, and works just like you have described.  One can have this 1st level spell easily put on items, and repeatedly cast.  I have even seen ingenious uses of this in PWs, put on roads so that one can move faster on them...

Yup, that's the ticket!  Never considered adding charges of it before.  Good notion, Web. '>  Too bad it can't be placed on as a permanent property like the Haste spell, well, at least not with vanilla resources anyway.

Also, I believe it stacks with Mass Haste to produce a fuel-injected version like the road runner. '>
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Shadooow]

               

HipMaestro wrote...

WebShaman wrote...

So, IMO, there should be a special version of Haste designed just for me and my toons, all classes.

Actually, there is!  It is called Expedious Retreat, and works just like you have described.  One can have this 1st level spell easily put on items, and repeatedly cast.  I have even seen ingenious uses of this in PWs, put on roads so that one can move faster on them...

Yup, that's the ticket!  Never considered adding charges of it before.  Good notion, Web. '>  Too bad it can't be placed on as a permanent property like the Haste spell, well, at least not with vanilla resources anyway.

Also, I believe it stacks with Mass Haste to produce a fuel-injected version like the road runner. '>

Tip: A PW with community patch installed can add on item an integer variable ITEM_CASTER_LEVEL_OVERRIDE with value for example 9999 and you get almost permanent speed until dispelled of course.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_WebShaman]

               SHOVA (it is supposed to be in caps, right?), it is possible to make the teleport spells MP - I and my team did it for multiple PWs with the PRC.

What problem exactly are you having?
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_SHOVA]

               Web, I figured it out. the mod build I have had Mad Rabbits player chat commands, and the Mod on player chat script was conflicting with the PRC, mainly the teleport options. I removed MRs player chat commands, and it works! I do however miss MR system, but still have the emotes available via the rest button.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_WebShaman]

               Now quickslot those - and BAM!  Instant get-out-of-danger-free!
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Noldorsteel]

               Thanks for the comments and advices people. for now I think I will just avoid perma-haste stuff it is just to good.