Best Tactics Versus ...?

[Legacy_WebShaman]

               Hmmm...never tried to use the Epic Spell feats while Shapechanged!  Interesting idea!
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_MrZork]

               Another thought on this: Arcane archers have ranged touch attacks that don't check magic resistance, which have something of an edge because ranged touch attacks don't respect immunity from critical hits. Similarly, a dexer with 20 AA levels and 30 dex has three imbue arrow fireballs per day that have a (small) chance of critting and beating the DR and also a great chance of beating the 20/- fire resistance with a 15d6 fireball that has a very high reflex save (around 40). Each fireball should be able to slip about 30 points of damage past the resistance. Even taken together, that's not enough to bring down a demilich, but I think a good approach is to do enough damage so that a big attack (perhaps a trap, Greater Ruin, etc.) can finish the job, but not so much that the demilich stops and heals himself.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_HipMaestro]

               

MrZork wrote...
Another thought on this: Arcane archers have ranged touch attacks that don't check magic resistance, which have something of an edge because ranged touch attacks don't respect immunity from critical hits. Similarly, a dexer with 20 AA levels and 30 dex has three imbue arrow fireballs per day that have a (small) chance of critting and beating the DR and also a great chance of beating the 20/- fire resistance with a 15d6 fireball that has a very high reflex save (around 40). Each fireball should be able to slip about 30 points of damage past the resistance. Even taken together, that's not enough to bring down a demilich, but I think a good approach is to do enough damage so that a big attack (perhaps a trap, Greater Ruin, etc.) can finish the job, but not so much that the demilich stops and heals himself.

But is the physical portion critted in a touch attack that is based on elemental damage?  Howz that supposed to work exactly?  The normal enchanted attack is not a touch attack so you'll get 3 shots.  Then, after it casts harm-self you are back to the drawing board.  Dunno, about depending on the range touches.

However, AA's are one of few dexers that can get by with their max +15 damage, a mighty bow & whatever damage they can stack with the ammo, but it still take a long time without being able to crit.  AB means almost nothing at all with the puny demilich AC and elemental ammo is worthless except for custom divine or positive damage stuff... rare at best.  If you can get enough physical damge on the ammo to supplement the 15 + mighty, you may be able to gradually whittle away after the harm-self.  But there are 3 of them in queue so it will takes nutz patience.

Mostly, for me anyway, the biggest problem are playing pure melee dexers like WMs, non-trapper rogues, monks, SDs, etc.... essentially any meleer that cannot do huge base damage and don't even have the +15 that AA's can develop. 

Divine buffs can be the one-size-fits-all remedy to some extent, but without some divine buff it stands there swatting forever (it seems) without getting anywhere and when they finally knock it down into the red the bugger casts harm-self.  Exasperating.  Heal kits don't cause positive energy, right?  Pretty sure they won't harm undead anyway.

So, basically, my "Worse enemy is..."   nomination was based on dexer toons attack since high-STR meleers can gradually whittle away with the high base damage.  For dexers without cleric buffs, it's hopeless IMO, without traps. 
               
               

               

                     Modifié par HipMaestro, 03 décembre 2011 - 01:23 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_MrZork]

               

But is the physical portion critted in a touch attack that is based on
elemental damage?  Howz that supposed to work exactly?  The normal
enchanted attack is not a touch attack so you'll get 3 shots.  Then,
after it casts harm-self you are back to the drawing board.  Dunno,
about depending on the range touches.

You are right in that the elemental damage of the ammo (or bow) on those ranged touch attacks doesn't apply. To be clear, I meant that the critical portion of the touch attacks isn't going to happen much and isn't going to slip much damage past the DR. As an aside, the strength modifier is always multiplied x3 for those crits, along with specialization bonuses, but not other feat-based damage boosts. So, having a buffed strength can be helpful even if if the bow isn't mighty. But, either way, the note about crit damage was just an interesting (to me) quirk of critical hits with ranged touch attacks ignoring crit immunity.

I was mostly pointing to the elemental fire damage, which will do substantial damage for a higher level AA because it isn't subject to spell resistance and has a high enough save DC that the demilich probably won't save for half damage. As noted, it's still not enough to kill the buggers because of the 20/- fire resistance, but it can get them to the sweet spot where they have low enough hit points that you can finish them off with something else but not so low that the AI forces them to heal.

BTW, even a melee build is going to be sort of a whittler against these guys because of the 30/+20 DR. A nice greatsword will average 7 (max 12) base damage, then add, say 18 for modified strength of 46 (I think STR of 34 + 12 magic is pretty good except for RDDs) and another 6 for EWS means a typical 1 damage per hit, with a max of 6. There are no crits and no elemental buffs are helping here. Now, magic weapons will help that and magic, positive, and divine damage will work. But a normal meleer is basically whittling away, too.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par MrZork, 03 décembre 2011 - 02:14 .