Is NWN dead? (Phoenix project)

[Legacy_Mad.Hatter]

               

serendipitydoda wrote...

As for models I know of
at least one person that has replaced a lot of the NWN models and
might be willing to contribute to a project like this.

Release or it didn't happen! '>
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_ehye_khandee]

               Seeing as the EULA specifically prohibits use of the content for any other game, you can take it as read that EA / Bioware put that there for a reason and WOULD CERTAINLY address in a legal forum any transgressions. Seeing as we have VERY LITTLE WORD FROM BIOWARE on issues we find very important today (gamespy), you are very unlikely to get a reply from Bioware on your request. Companies don't put clauses in the EULA like that unless they intend them to be followed and are prepared to take action as needed.

Be well. Game on.
GM_ODA
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_WebShaman]

               If one is using NWN as the basis for the game, isn't it NWN, then?

I mean, hooking into the exe and passing ints, etc to another "engine" is no different from what NWNX2 does, is it?

The PRC rewrote the Combat Engine, for example.  As long as it is the same game, using those resources plus whatever others, it has to still be legal, right?
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_serendipitydoda]

               

Mad.Hatter wrote...

serendipitydoda wrote...

As for models I know of
at least one person that has replaced a lot of the NWN models and
might be willing to contribute to a project like this.

Release or it didn't happen! '>

Don't worry I'll be looking into it soon.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_serendipitydoda]

               

ehye_khandee wrote...

Seeing as the EULA specifically prohibits use of the content for any other game, you can take it as read that EA / Bioware put that there for a reason and WOULD CERTAINLY address in a legal forum any transgressions. Seeing as we have VERY LITTLE WORD FROM BIOWARE on issues we find very important today (gamespy), you are very unlikely to get a reply from Bioware on your request. Companies don't put clauses in the EULA like that unless they intend them to be followed and are prepared to take action as needed.

Be well. Game on.
GM_ODA

Reading over the EULA there are ways to prevent the game engine itself from coming under fire.  It's the users that would ultimately be in violation.

WebShaman wrote...

If one is using NWN as the basis for the game, isn't it NWN, then?

I mean, hooking into the exe and passing ints, etc to another "engine" is no different from what NWNX2 does, is it?

The
PRC rewrote the Combat Engine, for example.  As long as it is the same
game, using those resources plus whatever others, it has to still be
legal, right?

I think there are a lot of 3rd party apps that would technically violate the NWN EULA.  Quite simply(and this is of couse my opnion) anything that enhances the game and ends up putting money in Bioware/EA's pocket is going to be ignored.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Sylrae]

               Hmm.

I'm thinking that so long as you still require a legitimate version of NWN to run it you might be able to get away with it... so long as you're not making any profit, and at that point, im not sure if it matters if you require a legit copy of nwn or not.

I will say I'd very much appreciate and enjoy a facelift to nwn, as well as an updated game engine ala nwn reborn. Not sure I need the lightweight client, but I could definitely go for a client that either works on the newest version of Open GL (something that runs nicely on newer cards) or that only requires directx (though that excludes the linux/mac users).

If you're going for portability, a java client would run on anything, but would be slower.

I will say this: If you go ahead with something like this, where its in fairly fuzzy eula territory, do not distribute any of the original game data files with it; just to be safe. Realistically, requiring legit NWN keys should basically ensure they have nwn, especially if you can get it to check the master server. It would be encouraging a purchase of their product, even if its just for the keys.

I'd like to ask one thing though: Do we need a whole new client? Why can't we just update the existing client? (the whole 2d on a netbook idea aside).

Personally I think the client just needs some hacking (allow other classes at level one, de-hard code some more things, implement races and subraces similar to nwn2, set up the combat system, active skill checks, combat modes, etc and all feats to be editable via script/2da instead of hardcoded), and use the bif manager to add in nwshader as a new patch. (and I suppose some openGL fixes to make it compatible with more video cards would help too) Then its really just an issue of updating the character models (a daunting task, but they're dated and hideous at the moment, including much of the CEP stuff.) Moving to a modern mesh system instead of the piecemeal characters in nwn1 would certainly be a big task, but alot smaller than a substitute game engine plus 3d models.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par Sylrae, 28 juillet 2011 - 10:53 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_WebShaman]

               I do not think we necessarily need a new client - but we definitely need to have some sort of Lexicon on all the different "hooks" that have been developed so far, for NWMain.exe

Then we can see what is possible and what still needs to be done to get NWN modernized.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_FunkySwerve]

               

serendipitydoda wrote...

Reading over the EULA there are ways to prevent the game engine itself from coming under fire.  It's the users that would ultimately be in violation.

No, you would be in clear violation, and subject to suit.

WebShaman wrote...

If one is using NWN as the basis for the game, isn't it NWN, then?

I mean, hooking into the exe and passing ints, etc to another "engine" is no different from what NWNX2 does, is it?

The
PRC rewrote the Combat Engine, for example.  As long as it is the same
game, using those resources plus whatever others, it has to still be
legal, right?

I think there are a lot of 3rd party apps that would technically violate the NWN EULA.  Quite simply(and this is of couse my opnion) anything that enhances the game and ends up putting money in Bioware/EA's pocket is going to be ignored.

[/quote]
Hacking the engine is precisely what NWNX does, and yes, it's a EULA violation. Bioware et al. have declined to take any action, and in fact have acted to support the efforts of NWNX, giving rise to a colorable legal defense to breach (waiver) when they sue you for doing this.

Would they sue you? They would if you did what Higher Ground is planning, which is the construction of a competing game (and remember, it's competition for their players' dollars even if you don't charge). Even if you're not doing that, you wouldn't be generating much revenue for them, and by ignoring you they would be weakening any prospective suit on the same basis - they waived violations in the past. Frankly, I don't see them looking favorably on it, and I'm not willing to gamble a bunch of dev time on it. It's not the kind of suit where the court is likely to award attourney's fees, since both sides have a colorable case, so even if you won it would probably cost you a pretty penny - money you could've just spent on licensing an engine.

Which gets us back to my initial post. Great idea, but you need a ton of modeling work done. Some engines offer pre-made content at an additional price. See, e.g.,
Realm Crafter
There are others with toolsets very similar to NWN's, at least in principle:
Hero Engine
BigWorld

I've looked at around a dozen, but I'm still not committed to any particular one.

Funky
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_serendipitydoda]

               

FunkySwerve wrote...
Hacking the engine is precisely what NWNX does, and yes, it's a EULA violation. Bioware et al. have declined to take any action, and in fact have acted to support the efforts of NWNX, giving rise to a colorable legal defense to breach (waiver) when they sue you for doing this.

Would they sue you? They would if you did what Higher Ground is planning, which is the construction of a competing game (and remember, it's competition for their players' dollars even if you don't charge). Even if you're not doing that, you wouldn't be generating much revenue for them, and by ignoring you they would be weakening any prospective suit on the same basis - they waived violations in the past. Frankly, I don't see them looking favorably on it, and I'm not willing to gamble a bunch of dev time on it. It's not the kind of suit where the court is likely to award attourney's fees, since both sides have a colorable case, so even if you won it would probably cost you a pretty penny - money you could've just spent on licensing an engine.

Which gets us back to my initial post. Great idea, but you need a ton of modeling work done. Some engines offer pre-made content at an additional price. See, e.g.,
Realm Crafter
There are others with toolsets very similar to NWN's, at least in principle:
Hero Engine
BigWorld

I've looked at around a dozen, but I'm still not committed to any particular one.

Funky

I can't argue with you Funky.  Unless Bioware/EA releases the source for Aurora and gives us their blessing a project that uses the original data files will be at risk.

Makes me wonder if anyone has been able to get any response from Bioware/EA on any subject related to NWN 1 lately?
               
               

               

                     Modifié par serendipitydoda, 30 juillet 2011 - 09:27 .