Henchmen and stealth

[Legacy_gwaedin]

               Another few beginner's questions.
I hired Tomi as a henchmen.
Since my elven monk is also good at stealth, I'd like to take advantage of that by going close to the enemy and using Tomi's sneak attack.
The questions are:
- is there a way to tell Tomi to go stealthy whenever I do? I have to select it manually from the radial menu
- more important: is there a way to have him keep stealthy BEFORE attacking the enemy? As we close foes, he always becomes visible as he attacks whoever is in sight
- unrelated question: is there a way to check his inventory or at least give him potions so that he may use'em when he feels low with HPs?
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_gwaedin]

               Perhaps I already found out something... if I click on "Follow me" from the radial menu and I put Tomi in stealth mode, it looks like he does what you would expect him to do when fighting (i.e. he closes the enemy unseen and sneak attack it). Here comes another question then: what is the default "mode" he is in (protect me, attack closest enemy, stay)? Is there a way to seen which "mode" is activated?
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_jmlzemaggo]

               I would say the default mode is "attack". Usually, if you go stealthy, so goes your henchy. And if you volontarily come out of the shadows, so does he. But it you come out of it because you attacked some one, he should stay hidden until he attacks himself, therefore using his sneak attack.
There is a way to improve the henchy's behaviour:
1) Place these 4 orders in your quickslots bar: Stealth F1 & Hold F10, follow F11, attack F12.
2) Install Tony K's AI which you'd find in my "Add-ons & Tips" list in my signature. Not only it's gonna allow you to access and fully manage your henchy's inventory, but he's going to behave a lot smarter, and you'd be able to control his behaviour very precisely, through many new options in that now greatly enhanced dialogue between the two of you.

A rogue is a very interesting class to play yourself, by the way. The only way to fully understand how it works. But watch Tomi carefully as he might be your best teacher for now.
Using the "Attack, Hold, Stealth, Attack again" in that order by using your keypads should force him to attack only when stealthy, if he doesn't do it naturally.
Once you placed these main orders in your quickbar, indeed.

I remember using an amazing trick in the OC, one I still miss today: when you're just about to level up, strip your henchy from everything he/she wears, but leave it in his/her inventory, and eventually add everything you've got yourself, weapons, rings, armors, and so on in your henchy's inventory. 
Then only level up, and once it's done, he/she should re-equip him/herself by choosing the very best appropriate gear for him/her, just like a familiar always does. 
This is not only freaking easy, it's also the best way to learn what ring, shoes, or wapon is the best for your rogue for instance.
So far, I had this working only in the OC... unfortunately...
What class do you play? What? Oh, okay, a monk. Just scratch that last part... 

Enjoy!
               
               

               

                     Modifié par jmlzemaggo, 30 mai 2011 - 12:23 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_gwaedin]

               Thanks for your prompt and detailed answer!
Did I get it right that you have to cycle through all the options (Attack/Hold/Stealth/Attack) in order to make it work? If I may ask, what is the reasoning behind that? I'm curious.
Your Add-ons page is great, I immediately downloaded Tonk K's AI. I will try your suggestions.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_jmlzemaggo]

                About the "Attack/Hold/Stealth/Attack" orders, that how Tomi should behave in order to place a sneak attack every single time he wants to seriously tickle his opponent as a rogue should. 
- Attack = 1st sneak attack
- Hold = to resume any previous order or he might keep fighting visible on his own, so no more sneak attack. (The best way to cancel any undesired order is to cancel it in the top left corner on your screen, but that works only for your PC) For Tomi, you will have to order him to stop = cancel any ongoing action.
- Stealth = authorising a new sneak attack next. 
- Attack = Sneak attack again, and so on...Now, like always, just try it "on the field", and observe how Tomi is behaving on his own, and adjust your orders accordingly. It often depends on the module you're playing.I learned that by playing on of the upmost amazing class around to me: Assassin (but you have to play evil... which I only tried in game, and intend to keep it that way...) That's exactly how an assassin should work, in order to perform only death (sort of sneak but "funnier" and dealy) attacks.
Watch carefully the options when installing TK's AI. And make a save of your current "override" folder. As a matter of fact, short for AAMOF, You can keep both, one "no Tony K's AI" override folder, and one "Tony K's AI" override folder. Somes modules deserves to be played as the author intended them to be played. I play with TK's AI 99% of my NWN time. Some don't... See whom I'm talking about?
If not, two clues:  & 

Don't forget, this is only a game, and if it's too complicated to perform every fight that way, just let Tomi do his thing as he wants. I'm just mentionning the way the NWN game engine works. Only one day, you might need it... 
I'm a Sharwyn kind of player anyway... '>
               
               

               

                     Modifié par jmlzemaggo, 30 mai 2011 - 11:52 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_gwaedin]

               I'm not able to place Henchmen orders in the quickbar. How do you do it?
I tried dragging them but it does not work.
If I simply click on an Empty slot I can access commands in my character's radial menu but not those belonging to the henchman. I'm a bit lost here.

Another two questions regarding potions. I've noticed that Tomi uses his own whenever he is low with HPs.
1) Where does he get them from? I read they are magically replenished but I couldn't find anything conclusive avout that (whether it's when you rest, when you enter a shop, when you level up...).
2) What happens when you install Tony K's AI? I suppose that potion regeneration stops at that time but do henchmen begin using those in the inventory on their own?
BTW, my Override folder was empty... no need to backup.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par gwaedin, 31 mai 2011 - 08:27 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_MrZork]

               

gwaedin wrote...

BTW, my Override folder was empty... no need to backup.

Just a quick note on this: I believe that the default Bioware override folder has a handful of files in it if you have updated the game to version 1.69.

iit_midmisc_029.tga
ls_car_01.dds
ls_car_01.tga
ls_car_01s.dds
ls_car_01s.tga
ls_car_03.dds
ls_car_03.tga
ls_car_03s.dds
ls_car_03s.tga

If you have, in fact, not updated to 1.69, then I would advise doing so, as you may otherwise run into some issues later on.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_jmlzemaggo]

               (I just realised my override folder currently hosts around 8300 files (800Mb)... It might be a bit too much... )
MrZork, smart deduction here. So yes, gwaedin, if you're not 1,69 yet, as MrZork pointed out, go for the update before anything else.

Now:
- You did fine. There are no such things like henchman's orders. If you found orders anywhere, just grab them, quickly, since they are yours. Remember, you're the one who bought the game, making you the hero... '>
Click on an empty slot from the quickbar, as you did, then go radial, until you find your mouth at some point. I heard you could also use the 'V' key for 'chat/shout' orders, but I never tried that myself. 
- Once you installed TK's AI, you will understand much more of what's happening. You'd be able to access Tomi's inventory. And realise he's got a few bottles of health already, by default , but won't get any others (I suppose, as I never played without TK's AI long enough to remember the regular NWN)... beside the ones you really should start providing yourself from now on (by moving them into his backpack... and long before any fight. My advice.)
And yes, he's gonna use them on his own, when needed, 'works actually pretty well, but he's gonna use much more than this, scrolls, wands, buffing potions, switching weapons, from blunt to slashing, even from range to melee, according the options you chose through the new TK's dialogues.
But only if he's got the required feats, class, UMD (Use Magic Device) skill... to properly use the said item. 
Start playing, you'd learn on the way. And never hesitate to ask around whenever you need it: Only a very few people know NWN as much as I do... 
as many know it very much more. 
(Oups, 'hope my french isn't misenglishing here, but I'd give everything for a joke, no matter how it could make me sound...) 

Enjoy NWN!
               
               

               

                     Modifié par jmlzemaggo, 31 mai 2011 - 06:49 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_gwaedin]

               Thanks j (or should I say maggo? You don't really expect to be addressed as "Dear jmlzemaggo", do you? ), I love your jokes... must be the latin blood we share.
Actually that's the only reason for which I'm sticking to 1.68 and not 1.69, that is I'm playing the Italian version of the game and the latest patch is 1.68.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_jmlzemaggo]

               

gwaedin wrote...
... must be the latin blood we share.

Oh, I'm so sorry. I know how it feels...  
A bit like wine actually. '>
Have fun. 
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_gwaedin]

               

Click on an empty slot from the quickbar, as you did, then go radial, until you find your mouth at some point. I heard you could also use the 'V' key for 'chat/shout' orders, but I never tried that myself.

Not that easy for me. Going radial from the quickbar and clicking the mouth yields the following options : set traps, inventory (useless in the OC), attack closest, follow, stand ground, guard, heal me, pick locks. No stealth mode for Tomi yet.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_jmlzemaggo]

               - "attack closest, follow, stand ground" those are the main 3 orders I was thinking of for your henchman
- The easiest way to have Tomi going stealthy is to do so yourself, and he's gonna go for the shadows just the same.
Actually, you could order him, through the dialog, to go stealthy "until the next fight". Maybe only with Tony K's AI. Not sure. Anyway, I find it too complicated to use myself. 
- Place the "stealth" icon, from the radial menu, in your quickbar. There is only one, for you, not specifically for Tomi, but it should work for your entire party.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par jmlzemaggo, 31 mai 2011 - 09:19 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_gwaedin]

               I could not find a way to have Tomi go stealthy without going to the second level radial menu.
However, as soon as I installed Tony K's AI, everything is much better. Now as soon as I go stealthy, he goes too. The hotkey with the stealthy option now works perfectly.
One thing I did was to remove his armor (since it was capping his DEX bonus to +4 instead of +6, for a mere +1AC gain) and equipped a Dagger +1 in his off hand, taking advantage of his dual wield talent. With that done, he's got a nice +8/+4 bonus.
However, I noticed the "Upgrade this henchmen" option in the dialogue. If I click on it, Tomi is reborn. He puts on his armor, which is OK. What is not OK is that from that moment onwards his attack bonus is lowered to +2. What is the reason? What is the "Upgrade this henchmen" option supposed to do?
EDIT: I found out what the button is supposed to do, it should force use of Auldar's blueprints starting from level 4.  I think the change I observed is due to replacing Weapon Finess with Ambidextrism. Is there a list of Auldar's "improvements" for each character?
               
               

               

                     Modifié par gwaedin, 02 juin 2011 - 04:47 .