Author Topic: Whirling Death Variant?  (Read 626 times)

Legacy_fetyr2004

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Whirling Death Variant?
« on: May 10, 2011, 09:29:25 am »


               Hey all

I was looking at the Whirling Death epic build, and I thought it was cool.  Now call me stupid if you want but I would much prefer to have a scimitar, (don't ask why, it's just my gut instinct).

Is there anyway to do this?  I have looked over the build constantly and can't see any way to incorporate martial proficiency...

Thanks again

Oh if you know any other awesome Bard/RDD builds let me know 'Posted
               
               

               
            

Legacy_HipMaestro

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Whirling Death Variant?
« Reply #1 on: May 16, 2011, 01:59:21 am »


               Are you referring to this build from the ECB?
               
               

               
            

Legacy_MrZork

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Whirling Death Variant?
« Reply #2 on: May 16, 2011, 08:35:38 am »


               I imagine that he OP is referring to this build from the Bioware Epic Character Builds page. However, the build you linked to does a good job of answering the question of how to get martial proficiency into the mix: Just swap in human for elf and use the extra feat for martial proficiency.

Of course, the build posted on the Bioware page is different from the ECBG build in other ways. It is a semi-dexer instead of a more pure strength build, it lacks the points in spellcraft, it grabs all RDD levels pre-epic which costs a point of BAB, etc.
               
               

               
            

Legacy_HipMaestro

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Whirling Death Variant?
« Reply #3 on: May 16, 2011, 05:16:26 pm »


               

MrZork wrote...
I imagine that he OP is referring to this build from the Bioware Epic Character Builds page. However, the build you linked to does a good job of answering the question of how to get martial proficiency into the mix: Just swap in human for elf and use the extra feat for martial proficiency.

Of course, the build posted on the Bioware page is different from the ECBG build in other ways. It is a semi-dexer instead of a more pure strength build, it lacks the points in spellcraft, it grabs all RDD levels pre-epic which costs a point of BAB, etc.

Ahh...  yah, I seldom have stumbled upon any of those builds on the Bioware pages.  That one is a DevCrit build while the ECB one added Still Spell (incorrectly listed as Silent Spell in the build) to cast bard spells using armor while not going the DevCrit route.

One thing they both have in common is taking the valuable Curse Song too late in the build to help much.  I would prefer to slide all feats back by one slot and get Curse Song in early on since there are so many bard levels to implement its benefits.  The curse will be so much more powerful than the delay of getting the other feats in.

Also, whirlwind is bugged. 

The wiki claims that it has been fixed for windows but this MUST be via something other than v1.69 patching because my PC is constantly getting locked up playing SP modules.  However, my own analysis of the cause is different than what is being documented.  I find that it only locks up if a subsequent whirlwind is triggered too early before the previous one has finished (either the attack calculations or animation, not sure which one).  I have gotten this lockup regardless of how many foes are in the whirlwind proximity so am suspicious of the magic "3" number in determining the cause.  In any case, it happens on many servers, which is a real bite to have to quit/rejoin just to play that style.

For this reason, I would never base a primary attack on whirlwind, although it is convenient, at times, to control high-density flanking.  Larger weapons seem to be more effective whirlwinding with the higher attack bonus while still gaining the applicable damage boost from size.
               
               

               


                     Modifié par HipMaestro, 16 mai 2011 - 04:20 .
                     
                  


            

Legacy_jmlzemaggo

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Whirling Death Variant?
« Reply #4 on: May 16, 2011, 05:48:24 pm »


               That is very right. 
I never "whirlwind" either, for that same reason; also because it could happen you only find out your PC has been frozen too many hours later, if you're not playing a "fights compulsive" module for instance.
When it's too late to get back to any decent previous save.
Then the only way would be, I suppose, to "import" a fresh PC... 
Same story with the henchies by the way... not to mention you cannot ordrer your companions not to whirlwind at will.
A real pain in my NWN. 
               
               

               


                     Modifié par jmlzemaggo, 16 mai 2011 - 04:56 .
                     
                  


            

Legacy_MrZork

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Whirling Death Variant?
« Reply #5 on: May 16, 2011, 10:33:16 pm »


               In addition, Whirlwind Attack and IWA don't play well with Tony K's AI. If an NPC has WA/IWA and is hasted, he may well do nothing but attack using that feat repeatedly, even if he is only facing one opponent and he may never hit (possibly due to a timing issue). I guess that isn't necessarily relevant to this build, but I was reminded of it because of the other Whirlwind Attack issue.

(BTW, can someone PM me with an address for Tony K? I tried to send him a bug report about this using The Vault's email feature, but don't think it was received.)
               
               

               
            

Legacy_jmlzemaggo

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Whirling Death Variant?
« Reply #6 on: May 16, 2011, 11:19:18 pm »


                (No @-address, sorry. Check his "Read me" maybe?)
If there is one NWN player known to not use Tony K's AI, that would be HipMaestro, and he said he experienced the bug just like the rest of us, so I'm not sure I would see a direct accompliceship between Whirlwind Attack and TK's stuff.  '<img'>
               
               

               
            

Legacy_HipMaestro

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Whirling Death Variant?
« Reply #7 on: May 17, 2011, 12:35:45 am »


               

jmlzemaggo wrote...

 (No @-address, sorry. Check his "Read me" maybe?)
If there is one NWN player known to not use Tony K's AI, that would be HipMaestro, and he said he experienced the bug just like the rest of us, so I'm not sure I would see a direct accompliceship between Whirlwind Attack and TK's stuff.  '<img'>

Neither Aribeth nor Valen seem to have any problem whirlwinding under the vanilla v1.69 installation and both seem to switch between modes okay.  TK's AI may have applied some tweaking to select the most (calculated) damaging mode of attack that may force it to continue to reoccur for henchfolk attacks.  The timing issue may indeed be the monkey wrench in the algorithm that TK's AI may not be adjusting properly.

Neither the Readme nor the zip installation boilerplate lists any optional email address to contact Tony K.

TBH, if it (WW) worked the way it was supposed to, it would be one of the most uber combat feats available. A logical balancing component (to me, anyway) that was never implemented (not sure how strict AD&D rules define WW) is that I would expect at least a slight decrease in AC while using it, since the WWer's back is open to easy attack by flankers while in motion (similar to AoO's).  Bioware apparently felt there was no need to script in any balancing, though.
               
               

               
            

Legacy_MrZork

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Whirling Death Variant?
« Reply #8 on: May 17, 2011, 02:22:05 am »


               Just to clarify, I didn't mean that the lockup problem people sometimes experience with WA is the one related to Tony K's AI; it's a different problem and I don't have any reason to think they are related.

I did some testing a few weeks ago to send a bug report to Tony K, but I may dig up my notes and make a thread here on the forums in case someone has some insight into the issue or knows how to get in touch with Tony K.
               
               

               
            

Legacy_MrZork

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Whirling Death Variant?
« Reply #9 on: May 17, 2011, 02:28:27 am »


               BTW, HipMaestro, not only does using WA/IWA not subject the character to additional flanking, but according to the wiki, the character is immune to flanking while executing the attack. However, while IWA can be an effective attack, I believe it limits the character to one attack per round, so there is a definite trade-off as to when it is worth using...