The "is it cheating or not" thread

[Legacy_HipMaestro]

               I suppose anyone who plays the OC using the Diamond DVD could be considered as cheating since there was never a comprehensive rebalancing done by Bioware for the uber spells and feats that were provided with the expansions.  In a certain respect, a purist would need to insist that the Oc ONLY be played with the original, legacy installation to assure the designed balance.  Therefore, only those who played that campaign when the game was originally released were able to glean the pristine, original game balance.

But... what's the point?  We all use the tools laid in our laps.  To be effective, rules need to be dynamic, changing according to a progressive environment.  There are no PERMANENT rules, in the game or in life.

BTW, I think avado is correct.  It's scary to think about his reasoning, but it makes sense to me.  Time to check my meds now.
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_Shadooow]

               

avado wrote...

I wonder, if we change up some of the "images", if we still would argue? (yes, i am afraid it would).

For
example, if you are alone in your bedroom, not married. Not in a
relationship with anyone. And you are "being with" yourself, are
there Are you cheating? What "rules" are you breaking?  Are you hurting
anyone else?  Cuz if you are, please tell me on whom (oh crap.. now I
got the "god" folks involved)... Same exact discussion, just a slightly
more "base" way of looking at the discussion. It is also why the
discussion on roleplaying in a closed sp game is also, not really
possible, but that last one is just MY thinking.

I don't think you took a right example. Im not sure if its appropriate to discuss about these things here but well I don't think that masturbation in mariage/relationship is commonly view as cheating. It must be something we all agree it is. I think this example could be translated into breaking a no-OOC speak on HCRP server but not all servers have this rule, but all servers probihit abusing of exploits and bugs.

But I can see your point and I found another example that does provide this point clearly.

HipMaestro wrote...

I suppose anyone who plays the OC using the Diamond DVD could be considered as cheating since there was never a comprehensive rebalancing done by Bioware for the uber spells and feats that were provided with the expansions.  In a certain respect, a purist would need to insist that the Oc ONLY be played with the original, legacy installation to assure the designed balance.  Therefore, only those who played that campaign when the game was originally released were able to glean the pristine, original game balance.

But... what's the point?  We all use the tools laid in our laps.  To be effective, rules need to be dynamic, changing according to a progressive environment.  There are no PERMANENT rules, in the game or in life.

BTW, I think avado is correct.  It's scary to think about his reasoning, but it makes sense to me.  Time to check my meds now.

No since thats how we get the game from developers. Either they think about that or not, they allowed expansion content in OC and therefore its not cheating. They allowed it to us (and without using console commands). This is really BS cos you could say the same about patches. I dont think anyone would say that you are cheating cos you have patch 1.69 while he sticked with 1.23.

WebShaman wrote...

Please provide the proof of your rebuttel (it should be possible to reliable repeat it and stand up under peer review).

Yes I dont have proof but neither you have. Your "proof" is based on your individual gaming experiences. At least I never said I have proof cos its probably unproofable.
               
               

               

                     Modifié par ShaDoOoW, 18 mai 2011 - 02:38 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_avado]

               

ShaDoOoW wrote...

I don't think you took a right example. Im not sure if its appropriate to discuss about these things here but well I don't think that masturbation in mariage/relationship is commonly view as cheating. It must be something we all agree it is. I think this example could be translated into breaking a no-OOC speak on HCRP server but not all servers have this rule, but all servers probihit abusing of exploits and bugs.

But I can see your point and I found another example that does provide this point clearly.

ROFLMAO!  I have no idea what you said!  While you seem to have the jist, you missed the point (dam, once you start down that path, it becomes impossible to ignore...)   Playing a game by yourself, REGARDLESS of what other people think, feel, etc is the same as there are some people out there who could argue that sex is ONLY meant to be done with someone else and ANY other variant is "cheating" or "smurfing" as someone put it.  In a closed system, the arguement is just as ridiculous as it is for cheating as that person controls EVERYTHING/... literally.  The ONLY stretch is that in this case, there is a "game", but not that big of a stretch really. 
               
               

               

                     Modifié par avado, 18 mai 2011 - 02:48 .
                     
                  

            

[Legacy_WebShaman]

               

ShaDoOoW wrote...

Yes I dont have proof but neither you have. Your "proof" is based on your individual gaming experiences. At least I never said I have proof cos its probably unproofable.

As I have already provided my proof (and it has passed peer review, so it is not just based on my individual gaming experiences - see Shia, Kail&Co posts for substantiation), I find your jesting rather lacking.  At least you can admit that you do not have a proof (re: rebuttel) and cannot submit such to peer review.  As such, in your case, the debate has run it's course and you have no other option but denial here (well, unless you wish to accept the facts, that is).

Next!
               
               

               
            

[Legacy_HipMaestro]

               

ShaDoOoW wrote...
No since thats how we get the game from developers. Either they think about that or not, they allowed expansion content in OC and therefore its not cheating.

I disagree.  It would have required a total rebalancing of the OC modules to maintain the challenge they intended.  IMO the release of the expansions simply took precedence over any rebalancing efforts needed by incorporating the features of the expansions.  Once the spells, feats, prestige classes had been added ALL the Bioware modules are subject to using that framework unless they had provided haks or overrides dedicated solely to maintaining the original balance of the OC (or SoU, for that matter).

They allowed it to us (and without using console commands). This is really BS cos you could say the same about patches. I dont think anyone would say that you are cheating cos you have patch 1.69 while he sticked with 1.23.

That's a jump.  I've never read any documentation furnished with the stock game which specifically prohibits the use of the console for any module.  If a patch is devoted to rebalancing the OC or repairing bugs, then no, obviously it couldn't provide an unbalanced environment in which the game would be played.  However, if a patch adds new feats, classes, etc. without considering the effect  (and making the appropriate modifications) it has on the original content's challenge, then yes, it could be considered playing in an artificial environment.  Does creating this artificial, unintended environment constitiute "cheating"?  See below...

The whole "Is it cheating or not" issue, to me at least, seeks to define what measures can be considered changing the gaming environment to make it less balanced, less challenging, less interesting and hence, less fun to play.  My own stance is that it is totally subjective (i.e. a personal bias) and cannot be quantified.  I have read nothing that can be reasonably construed as being quantitative in nature, just personal perspectives and innuendo, which is fine by me, just not objective enough to prompt notetaking.

To each his (or her) own.