Author Topic: Some Major Tips On: Errors To Avoid When Building...  (Read 650 times)

Legacy_Genisys

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 961
  • Karma: +0/-0
Some Major Tips On: Errors To Avoid When Building...
« on: August 18, 2010, 03:38:15 pm »


               It's been a while since I've written a post on building and other information that is critical in module design & creation, and though some may not like my opinions or perceptions, I offer them freely, like them or not...

Balance is critical to a good module...

I had the priveledge of logging on to a server a while back ago, which after getting some cool looking (yet bland) starting gear (with no properties on them), started venturing out to find monsters, which ended up killing me in one hit... Lame? YOU BET!

What player would want to play on a server that has uber monsters??  There are some who like this style of play, truly, however, there is a fine difference between challenging players and overwhelming them..

If you spawn 6 monsters on ONE player, they are going to be overwhelmed, even if the monsters only deal a measly 6-18 dmg, especially if they are hitting the PC consistently, besides the more monsters you spawn, the more lagg your going to be creating, and the worse your server is going to perform.  Furthermore, spells that have a high DC, because the caster is high level, even if they are weak are more or less going to kill the PC fast, which IS BAD!

Therefore scaling your encounters in balance, and balancing the challenge are critical to a good module, all those who can't or won't playtest their module with normal (weaker) rogue or monk characters are going to have to deal with those new players which are complaining a lot and then just leave very dissatisfied, so why risk it eh?

I'm not saying make your module easy, what I am saying is make sure it's not overwhelming to the lesser classes and new players...  This is Important!

Are you tempted to power up gear, weapon damages, or Spell's Damages?  Don't be, your going to create a major headache for yourself, not only that, your going to have to playtest your butt off to ensure it's a quality change!

Remember that the base system is +5 AC Items (WITH 5 TYPES of AC<< Critical) & +5 Weapons, so if you want balance you can add +6 AC items IF you add at least +7 up to +10 Weapons  (Going beyond that will only create yourself a headache!)  Remember there are 5 Armor Types so +6 = an additional +5 AC to the base system, therefore if you want to keep in balance you would need +10 weapons. (to be true to the +5 Base System)

Don't forget, base classes like Rogues / Monks and some prestige classes don't have a good AB to start with, so if you go handing out +10 AC items to fighters, those fighters will be superior to low AB classes (From a PVP Perspective)... this is something you should weigh carefully!  As making classes worthless only show you have no building skills...

Don't Be the Fool!  That statement has to do with fooling your players, or at least you may think you can fool players, players are not fools, they can tell and sense the changes to a module, so if you continue to make it harder, will the players be fooled? NOT ONE IOTA!  More than that, if you make it extremely hard, all you will have is a bunch of experienced VETS, which aren't easy to challenge, who will only stick around as long as your module evolves, the moment it stops evolving, they think it's stale or boring then leave, and because all the new players think it's too hard to begin with, your server WILL DIE....  (I'm not stupid, listen and learn!)

Having hosted & built quite a few server modules, I've made a lot of mistakes, it takes a wise person to listen to experience and grow, the fool stomps on wisdom / experience without listening, so mark well the words in this documents, for I'd hate to be wasting my words on deaf ears...  Open your mind to the post, open your heart to reason.

The reason why Server modules often fail is because THEY DON'T CONSIDER THE PLAYERS FIRST!  If your not willing to consider the players first and above all else, your not going to have a great server module, nor will people like your single player module for that matter, making a good module all stems upon that base fact...  You have to consider the player above all else...

Now, there are some things that seperate the better modules from the lame ones, obviously that is where art comes in, for those who spend the time making high quality areas, designs, and systems, there work speaks for itself, for anyone can download a module from the vault and host it, and that's more or less unoriginal...

Players like original content & custom content, especially when servers use popular and nice systems, for example, I've met many players who love Mandragon's Body Tailors, and other cool systems, you should try your best to put good systems in your module, WHICH BENEFITS PLAYERS.  (Of course, after you have playtested them THOROUGHLY)

A module worth doing, is worth doing correct, the first time, don't rush yourself, take your time and playtest, playtest, and playtest some more, if you need help, ask friends to playtest with you, just make sure you check the feedback yourself, and that means verify what the PCs / Testers are saying to you!  Don't rush to add recommendations either, for often players will make suggestions just to gain a very unfair advantage..

I actually had a player suggest I make arrows deal more damage, am I'm thinking AA is the ONLY class that consistentlyl hits most of the time, therefore the balance is, because they hit more, they should deal less damage, for if they delt more, they would be by far the best class in the game. (and that would be unbalanced)

The balance lays in this, no one class should dominate, for then it would be a fighting world, or a mages world, but every class needs weaknesses to ensure that everyone should party to help themselves advance, for going it alone should have it's price, and that price of course is, it's much harder, if not a deadly mistake...

Making it hard, without overwhelming is still important, for rogue SHOULD be a playable class on your module, if it's not, you have balance issues...  A monk & a rogue should hit the monster too, what fun is it to swing on a monster always missing, but the monster is never missing you?? UNFAIR 100%!!!

If you make lame monsters you will hear the players complain, and if the complaining gets too loud, though you can bann the complainers, if your not listening and making changes, then your server will die!  I've tried to tell this to multiple servers, many of which STILL have no players...

I'd like to quote a great builder here, (Funkyswerve) -  "We need quality, not quantity.", for it makes no sense to spend 3-9 months on building a module only for it to be lame, if it's out of balance bad, then you realize that you have made some major mistakes, you will have to most likely start over...  It's  much easier to make changes to a good balanced module than to remodify a poorly balanced module...

Keep everything in balance as you build, continue to playtest AS YOU BUILD, and after your done building, and ready to start hosting, ask friends to playtest with constant feedback, but make sure you weigh their words carefully, don't just accept everything as truth, but consider the words... Why are they saying this?  Is this true?  Obviously, if it's a gross error, your going to correct it right away..

The Point of No Return....

Then of course there are modules which have reached the point of no return, these modules are so poorly designed and out of balance that, it would take a major overhaul, and thereby too much work to fix, so they are often best left alone. (in the trash bin)  Of course we want to NOT make this mistake, and again, it's all about the beginning, during creation, and consideration of these important facts I've layed out in this rather lengthy discussion here...

Don't be afraid to start over, you will make some mistakes, that doesn't mean don't try, not at all..  In fact, I'd like to encourage would be builders to make smaller modules, to start, before they take on a huge project of a server module, for if you look at some of the server modules out there, your up for a VERY challenging & time consuming task to even compete on the level of those servers, for some are very indepth, with literally hundreds of areas, thousands of items, and more custom content than you could throw goblins at... '<img'>  (And I do love throwing goblins)

However, another major mistake that I see, which is
quite common is, putting 2 encounters on a very large map, this is
actually 2 major mistakes, first very large maps require long loading
time, so if a party of 6 were loading the map, it would be killing your
bandwith pretty bad (cause lag), and they would then become disgruntled
having only found 2 small encounters on the map..  Players love action,
at least most of the players I've played with..

I think every module should have a large array of well made monsters of all types, as long as they stick to the theme and stay true to the monster's domain, e.g. Giants don't belong in the often cramped underdark, they belong outside, in mountain or hill areas, with lots of room to throw those nasty big rocks... (or very large caves)

The problem of course with this is, it eats up your available Palette resources.  You would do well to read the Lexicon 1.69 on building Server Modules (Especially the part that talks about reducing lagg), often servers make the fatal error of populating there servers with lots of NPCs which stand around firing heartbeats killing the server with lagg..

Even if you dynamically spawn NPCs in, there should be over 5 per map, 20+ is a major lagg on the server..  Some make the fatal error of populating the server with literally thousands of placeable objects, this too is a major stress on the server, especially if your using any script with GetObjectByTag() for it searches ALL the objects in the module to find your object by tag... and this would be a serious error in scripting / module design..

Finally, let's talk about fun, for the true design of any GAME essentially is to make it fun, for by something being fun we learn, for who can learn with someone beating them down at the same time?  It's hard for the players to learn or have fun, for that matter, if they are constantly drinking heals just to stay alive...

If the player group has to use more than 2 ressurections on any adventure (the whole adventure), then you have probably made the adventure way too hard, if they are constantly drinking potions to stay alive, you definitely have made it too hard..  However, there is a reverse here that we can learn from, if they are never drinking potions, that it's far too easy...  (And this is truly where we builders / dms can see the challenge in game)

You need to be able to adjust encounters / monsters to fit the party it's intended to challenge, don't forget the soloing player either!  It's not hard to scale encounters, it's not, so learn this critical skill before you set out to make a server module, even if your an experienced builder, this is an important skill to making a GREAT modle..

Players are no longer playing on those lame servers, they have moved on to the higher quality ones, so if you want players, bring your best work, or you will sit with an empty server, and THATS THE BOTTOM LINE....

Finally, on the ending note:

If your going to spend months and lots of time & money making a server module, ensure that you avoid the critical pitfalls / mistakes builders make, read well before you start, and playteste playtest and playtest some more to ensure quality, for quality is what the community needs, for thereare litterally thousands of modules out there, many of which are not liked by most players because the builder failed to do it right the first time...

Dont' forget a bad tendency of a builder is to be a tinker gnome, fixing / tweaking stuff till they break it, make a few changes, then playtest, then make a few more changes, then test a few times more, and LEAVE IT ALONE!  Don't get yourself overworked, take breaks, for building a server module is an extremely exhuasting & huge task, especially if your going it alone.. no doubt...

Genisys (Guile)


(P.S. If you would like to ADD to the quality of this post BY POSTING YOUR OWN TIPS on Mistakes to Avoid, IF you can stay on topic, your welcome to, if you just make rude remarks about the post you will be properly ignored.)
               
               

               


                     Modifié par Genisys, 18 août 2010 - 02:55 .
                     
                  


            

Legacy_C Writer

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 73
  • Karma: +0/-0
Some Major Tips On: Errors To Avoid When Building...
« Reply #1 on: August 18, 2010, 08:12:30 pm »


               One thing that module builders should remember is that when it comes down to it, you are telling a story. Although it is important to have balance and include items that every class can make use of, players should feel that they are doing the things they're doing in your module for a reason. Nothing is worse than going through countless dungeons with no idea what's going on, where you are, or why the hell you're even there. Therefore, every module should have at least some friendly NPCs in order for there to be better potential for immersitivity.
               
               

               


                     Modifié par C Writer, 18 août 2010 - 07:12 .
                     
                  


            

Legacy_Genisys

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 961
  • Karma: +0/-0
Some Major Tips On: Errors To Avoid When Building...
« Reply #2 on: August 19, 2010, 12:12:32 am »


               Excellent take on that C Writer, well said, well said!
               
               

               
            

Legacy_Jenna WSI

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1837
  • Karma: +0/-0
Some Major Tips On: Errors To Avoid When Building...
« Reply #3 on: August 19, 2010, 08:09:15 am »


               I approve of the tinker gnome reference.
               
               

               
            

Legacy_C Writer

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 73
  • Karma: +0/-0
Some Major Tips On: Errors To Avoid When Building...
« Reply #4 on: August 19, 2010, 01:04:16 pm »


               Thankyou, Genisys.

Another thing which a lot of games outside NWN get wrong is that you end up with heaps of gold/currency with nothing left to spend it on. I'm not saying that gold should be hard to come by, not at all! But when players no longer feel the need to buy anything, maybe because stores don't sell enough items which could interest them, then PCs can feel like they've acquired all of their gold for nothing. I tend to find this whist playing ME; in one playthrough, I buy everything that I could possibly find use for about a quarter to a third of the way into the game and at about half-way, I already have 9,999,999 credits (the maximum) with nothing to spend them all on. That spells out imbalance to me.

So at least try to make sure that PCs will not feel like "meh" the next time they are rewarded for a quest with gold because they feel like the reward is worthless.
               
               

               


                     Modifié par C Writer, 19 août 2010 - 12:04 .
                     
                  


            

Legacy_Genisys

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 961
  • Karma: +0/-0
Some Major Tips On: Errors To Avoid When Building...
« Reply #5 on: August 19, 2010, 01:43:13 pm »


               A great solution to this C Writer, that many of us builders have found, is put in a forge, so players can customize their gear, however, you can make it rather expensive, because it should be!  Also, there is what's called xp/gp balance, where one is level 40 with 200,000 GP value in total inventory & gold combined, this balance is bad.

If they are level 2 with 2,000,000 gold this would be bad too, but nothing is more frustrating than being broke all the time, which in turn means the players are going to start farming for gold, farming meaning, re-looting treasures redundantly or re-killing bosses. (if a GP reward or major loot is given out)  Rather than fix the core problem, not enough gold, many servers make rules about "No Farming Allowed", not wanting to admit their balance is bad...

I know exactly how those players feel...    "100 XP & 1000 GP, man, that quest was very hard and took me 2 hours (or more)..."  Very Solid Point C Writer, thanks for that...

While storyline is important as you stated above, you still need to carefully consider gameplay, for, even if you have the story all correct  and it's a fabulous storyline / plot with a great hook, if game play is bad, then players will just leave or quit, and all that work will have been for naught, which in turn would be a dire travesty & a great waste...

After all, who wants to be broke, die repeatedly, or become frustrated to no end?  The most major point I make in my article is, it's a Fantasy Game, not a reality game, so make sure your players are living a fantasy, and while some may like cutscenes, try not to make your whole module a "movie" to watch, or a story to read, for many find "reading" modules boring...  A good mix up of all the elements will make a better module than one that has a heavy focus on one thing (for example reading), for it will cater to a specific crowd only...

And remember, players LOVE to be powerful, so don't be afraid to make a few awesome items, these are often the reason why some modules in themselves became very famous!  (Remember Paths of Ascension & The Crown!)

Thanks again for your contributions, to everyone, for adding to the post..
               
               

               


                     Modifié par Genisys, 19 août 2010 - 12:47 .
                     
                  


            

Legacy_TSMDude

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1515
  • Karma: +0/-0
Some Major Tips On: Errors To Avoid When Building...
« Reply #6 on: August 19, 2010, 01:48:45 pm »


               Another thing is if you do put your stuff out there and do not get the feedback you want, having the attitude of taking your toys back and going home really serves no purpose but to make any post anyone does in the future look silly.



It would probably be in that type of person's best interest to acknowledge said mistakes and then be able to move on from there otherwise when throwing stones and not being consistent it makes it very hard to acknowledge those types of people’s contributions as sooner or later their gifts to the Community will get yanked anyway for really it is to serve their own needs for adoration and not the Community’s Needs for Growth.



So another good way to make sure that a module builder or world designer stays as someone to be admired or listened to is to;



Stay the Course and Be Consistent.

               
               

               
            

Legacy_Genisys

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 961
  • Karma: +0/-0
Some Major Tips On: Errors To Avoid When Building...
« Reply #7 on: August 19, 2010, 02:38:11 pm »


               

TSMDude wrote...

Another thing is if you do put your stuff out there and do not get the feedback you want, having the attitude of taking your toys back and going home really serves no purpose but to make any post anyone does in the future look silly.

It would probably be in that type of person's best interest to acknowledge said mistakes and then be able to move on from there otherwise when throwing stones and not being consistent it makes it very hard to acknowledge those types of people’s contributions as sooner or later their gifts to the Community will get yanked anyway for really it is to serve their own needs for adoration and not the Community’s Needs for Growth.

So another good way to make sure that a module builder or world designer stays as someone to be admired or listened to is to;

Stay the Course and Be Consistent.


Obvious Harrasment...
               
               

               
            

Legacy_C Writer

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 73
  • Karma: +0/-0
Some Major Tips On: Errors To Avoid When Building...
« Reply #8 on: August 19, 2010, 04:35:02 pm »


               One thing that got a bit tedious with the OC was the amount of locked containers and how long it took to bash your way through into some of them at lower levels. Maybe it's just supposed to be a method of penalising the more impatient people, but I don't find it very fun that it can take a long time to bash open containers with nothing to do but watch the feedback come through. That's why I usually like ot either keep locked containers or doors weak or simply force people to pick the lock (or simply find a key if it's more important) to give rouges a purpose in the module. At least that's what I think. Maybe I'm just barking up the wrong tree, I don't know.



When it comes to narration, I think that sometimes it is used to describe things that the PC sees too often when they could in fact show it with a quick cutscene. I know it's a bit more work, but a lot of people like to see things as well as hear them and what the players see will probably sink in more giving better immersitivity. At least I find that to be the case.
               
               

               
            

Legacy_Genisys

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 961
  • Karma: +0/-0
Some Major Tips On: Errors To Avoid When Building...
« Reply #9 on: August 19, 2010, 05:47:28 pm »


               That's very considerate & perceptive of you C Writer, what your referring to is sort of indicative to watching a blank screen while resting for an entire minute, or swinging on a boss that just won't die for 10 minutes.. (Boring?)

Game immersion is important, definitely, definitely hearing things is cool (especially environmental sounds), and yes it can be a lot of work to make some things happen, like cut-scenes, I've always thought it was awesome to have a few cut-scenes in a module at a critical point, as long as the module doesn't over do it too much...

I think some builders / game developers tend to overdo cut-scenes too much, though they are nice, and can be important too, that's a common mistake I've seen in many games...

I loved Final Fantasy Tactics, but hated the main game for this very reason... way too many cut-scenes and movie modes for me to even remotely enjoy it, for essentially, by taking control of the player(s), and making them watch the game, they really aren't essentially playing any longer, they are just watching the game..

NWN on the other hand, like the scene with Aribeth, was at a very pivital moment and it was great, however, unfortunately even for more experienced builders, something like this is a huge amount of work to create a good cut-scene, requires solid building skills, especially with camera work, and is something most builders don't even bother with due to the complexity of it....  (I am even guilty of this too)

(I wish someone would make a very simplified cut-scene template for the community, I checked out a few, and they were way over my head, but, that's something left for another discussion..)

That's great advice C Writer, avoid tedious, monotonous, or unimportant task for the PC, it's great to have puzzles, tricks, traps too, as long as they aren't overly hard..  The more amusement you can throw in a module, all the better, even if it's only purpose is to be simply amusing.. '<img'>

I can remember back on some great modules with some very memorable NPCs, these too also play a major part in making a module great, and it's especially important to avoid NPCs that do nothing or don't really add to the gameplay, they just stand there eating up your Server's or the Player's Computer's Resources.. (Causing Lag)

I know aesthetic look can be important, but 500 placeables in an area is seriously over doing it!  So are the 20 X 20 tiled areas, woosh!  Keeping everything well thought out, for the PCs that is, makes a great module, walking through bland areas will quickly bore the PCs even if there are some cute little animals in there to touch and play with (but do nothing)...

I remember in Paths of Ascension, the builder put Smokey The Bear in there, which was comical, everyone had a good laugh.. "Only you can prevent forest fires.."

I definitely remember some NPCs based upon their dialogue, which was with sound, and this is a great idea to add, because NPCs that make no sound will not be as remembers as those that do, surely..

If you walk through your module, being critical of it, you will quickly find room for improvement, but please, for love of the game, try not to make games that are specifically tailored to a small group of people, but consider other players as well, this is essentially where the great modules are, the ones that entertain a broader group of players...

(No, I'm not saying don't make a theme module, just make sure there are other things to do as well.)

Thanks again for your tips C Writer...
               
               

               


                     Modifié par Genisys, 19 août 2010 - 04:55 .
                     
                  


            

Legacy_C Writer

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 73
  • Karma: +0/-0
Some Major Tips On: Errors To Avoid When Building...
« Reply #10 on: August 19, 2010, 07:17:00 pm »


               Thank you Genisys. It is in fact due to the boredom reason that I actually made resting instant for my module via the ForceRest() command because I'm sure that many people would agree, and especially at higher levels where resting takes more time, waiting up to 30 seconds (yes, thirty seconds at level 40) is really not my idea of fun.

Another thing about module design are the haks that you use. Don't get me wrong, I like using hak paks because of all the great content that you can get out of them, but you should only include haks which are going to make a noteworthy difference to your module  - moreover if it requires a lot of space which some haks do. Hak paks take up a surprisingly large amount of space and if you're not going to make much use of a hak, you needn't bother using it. And yes, a hak for a module can be larger than the module itself. Of course, still feel free to add extra content where it's going to be used, although people do expect to only have to download a single hak. So if you use multiple haks, which you probably will and there's nothing wrong with that, remember to merge them into one using the NWN utilities.
               
               

               


                     Modifié par C Writer, 19 août 2010 - 06:18 .
                     
                  


            

Legacy_Genisys

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 961
  • Karma: +0/-0
Some Major Tips On: Errors To Avoid When Building...
« Reply #11 on: August 20, 2010, 12:47:14 am »


               Unfortunately Haks also eat up your available total resources a module can have, which also includes the special custom stuff you make on the palette, once the maximum is reached, you start having serious problems in your module..  



Someone stated the actual maximum resource limit somewhere, if anyone can restate it here and how to obtain that maximum amount (by a guesstimate) that would be great too, thanks..